Straight flush mucked at 200nl Foxwoods?

[QuadsOverQuads]

In a perfect world, the dealer should have immediately asked the player to clarify his action: "sir, are you calling or mucking?".

First off, this "cuts off" the players who don't have the sense to keep quiet.

Second, if you can get the player to unambiguously state his intent -- "call" or "fold" -- the whole dispute is avoided.

In this case, however, it isn't clear the dealer had the opportunity to do this before the third player opened his big yap.

That being the case: I can't call this a clear fold, and I can't penalize the SF for someone else's actions, so I award the pot to the SF.

Now, rack up the 3rd player and either send them down to the low limit games or out the door. There's absolutely no excuse for interfering in a hand like this, and if that player doesn't know it yet then it's time they learned.


q/q

[*TT*]

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Now, rack up the 3rd player and either send them down to the low limit games

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this is a low limit game.

[KenProspero]

I think you're missing the point -- either his hand was dead or it wasn't. The floor has a duty to rule consistently whether a hand is dead. Let's concede that he would have folded if the moron hadn't opened up his mouth. Doesn't matter -- either he had folded or not. This is a judgment call of the floor, in this case.

And yes -- you lose the pot if a moron opens his mouth. I've lost pots that way, and I suspect that most of the posters here have.

Point 1. Tabling your cards, HU before betting isn't a fold in all card rooms.

Point 2. "You had me till the river" isn't the same thing as 'fold'.

Point 3. If he hadn't folded, he still had time to wake up and realize his hand beat your hand.

Point 4. If he hadn't folded, the Moron's talking doesn't make it a fold.

Honestly, your beef is with the Moron, not Villian, the floor or the dealer.

[GreedIsGood]

To my mind this is simple. If the villain was still holding, or otherwise protecting his hand, then it is live, and no words spoken by a third party can alter this. If the villain pushed his cards forward and released them without announcing a call, then the hand is dead, and the dealer should have been pulling the hand into the muck as the third party was talking.

The fact that the cards are face-up rather than face-down makes no difference here.

[pfapfap]

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Bernie - even in your room the line is a primary measure but not an absolute measure. They will allow other factors to weigh a decision, consider it like the muck - everyone thinks its magical but in reality cards can be fished out if its in the best interest of the game and the cards can be determined.

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I promise you that in my room during my shift, even if a card just barely grazes the muck on accident, the hand will be declared dead. I've gotten one shift manager to discuss the silliness of Magical Muck, and he seems halfway to understand intent, but is still vague and confusing with implementation. Muck dissolves cards, bottom line.

I, of course, think that's insane, and much more go with intention and best interest of what's fair.

[pfapfap]

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Friend of mine played a hand recently....

Friend has AJ....he bets a Jxx flop
He check calls the K turn.
He check / calls the river.

Villain says "I have KJ"
Friend says "Oh crap", turns his cards face up and pushes them about 3 inches towards the dealer.

Villian then shows 95, not KJ. He has nine high.

Dealer says hero folded and awards pot to villain. Hero calls for floor who confirms ruling.

All other players complain but floor stands by his decision.

This is at Paris in Vegas (which I know is a stupid place to play poker but still....) What a joke.

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Wow. Just... wow. Tho' I can imagine that being the ruling in my room, it surprises me that big Vegas rooms aren't smarter. That's got to be one of the worst rulings in the world, considering your friend tabled his hand.

[rafiki]

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LESS importantly, lol @ heavy betting with second pair T kicker, and then taking that shot on the river.

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Not only does this have NOTHING to do with the topic at hand. Considering he was doing his best to fold his hand, and everyone at the table, including anyone of you if you were there, knew it. Then yea, pls teach me. You have no idea of eithers' table image, stack sizes, or ability to fold. So stfu if you're going to make pointless remarks.

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What do I need to know about table image ? Trying to angle shoot your way into winning with the worst hand puts you in the category of douche. The added bonus of getting deeply invested with JT is just icing on the cake [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[vasivious]

IMO since fw allows players to show cards hu (as stated in an earlier post) AND said cards did not "touch" the muck AND the dealer hasn't yet raked the cards toward the muck they are live. The unfortunate part is the 3rd person speaking up and clarifying the villain's hand.

[Miamipuck]

It does not sound like a true muck to me. I have seen this before once and it was ruled not a muck.

My one wacky hand when another player interfered:

I was in a hand where a person did not realize he had 2 pair. He was across the imaginary line and turned over 1 card. Another player turned over the other card and low and behold he won the pot. The dealer gave the other player a rash of [censored]. I did not complain too much it was not a huge pot maybe 40 bucks. Anyway, he did not muck and I did not think I would get a favorable ruling and just let it be.


OP, nice to try and get other peoples opinions and then act like an ass when they are not what you want to hear. GJ!

[scott1]

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The unfortunate part is the 3rd person speaking up and clarifying the villain's hand.

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Odds of no one saying anything in this situation at a small stakes table are not good.