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#21
10-03-2007, 12:41 AM
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Re: 4bet bluff vs 2p2er flops top pair
[ QUOTE ]
also - why is him checking behind on the flop such a bad thing? you still have 2 streets to try and extract value. [/ QUOTE ] ck/bet/bet looks wayyy stronger than shove or bet/bet imo. 
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#22
10-03-2007, 12:47 AM
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Re: 4bet bluff vs 2p2er flops top pair
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] also - why is him checking behind on the flop such a bad thing? you still have 2 streets to try and extract value. [/ QUOTE ] ck/bet/bet looks wayyy stronger than shove or bet/bet imo. [/ QUOTE ] But you are assuming he won't stab at the pot himself. A lot of times opponents will makes moves at A-high flops, hoping hero was on KK/QQ/JJ and is now freezing up. I just think it would take quite a bit of history for villain to make a hero call w/ JJ on an A-high flop. Moreover, as I mentioned b4, I don't see why villain can't have an A himself.
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#23
10-03-2007, 12:53 AM
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Re: 4bet bluff vs 2p2er flops top pair
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] also - why is him checking behind on the flop such a bad thing? you still have 2 streets to try and extract value. [/ QUOTE ] ck/bet/bet looks wayyy stronger than shove or bet/bet imo. [/ QUOTE ] But you are assuming he won't stab at the pot himself. A lot of times opponents will makes moves at A-high flops, hoping hero was on KK/QQ/JJ and is now freezing up. [/ QUOTE ] jeez what kind of range are you putting him on? he has just called a 4-bet ffs, he hasn't got suited connectors and [censored]. 95% of his range has showdown value, maybe he will take a stab with something like KQs or turn 99 into a bluff to move you off a bigger overpair, but i think he'll want to get to showdown with most of his range.
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#24
10-03-2007, 12:56 AM
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Re: 4bet bluff vs 2p2er flops top pair
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] also - why is him checking behind on the flop such a bad thing? you still have 2 streets to try and extract value. [/ QUOTE ] ck/bet/bet looks wayyy stronger than shove or bet/bet imo. [/ QUOTE ] But you are assuming he won't stab at the pot himself. A lot of times opponents will makes moves at A-high flops, hoping hero was on KK/QQ/JJ and is now freezing up. [/ QUOTE ] jeez what kind of range are you putting him on? he has just called a 4-bet ffs, he hasn't got suited connectors and [censored]. 95% of his range has showdown value, maybe he will take a stab with something like KQs or turn 99 into a bluff to move you off a bigger overpair, but i think he'll want to get to showdown with most of his range. [/ QUOTE ] OP's 4bet wasnt exactly a hefty repop. it's 65 more for a huge pot. anything pudge 3bet is seeing a flop.
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#25
10-03-2007, 01:06 AM
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Re: 4bet bluff vs 2p2er flops top pair
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] also - why is him checking behind on the flop such a bad thing? you still have 2 streets to try and extract value. [/ QUOTE ] ck/bet/bet looks wayyy stronger than shove or bet/bet imo. [/ QUOTE ] But you are assuming he won't stab at the pot himself. A lot of times opponents will makes moves at A-high flops, hoping hero was on KK/QQ/JJ and is now freezing up. [/ QUOTE ] jeez what kind of range are you putting him on? he has just called a 4-bet ffs, he hasn't got suited connectors and [censored]. 95% of his range has showdown value, maybe he will take a stab with something like KQs or turn 99 into a bluff to move you off a bigger overpair, but i think he'll want to get to showdown with most of his range. [/ QUOTE ] OP's 4bet wasnt exactly a hefty repop. it's 65 more for a huge pot. anything pudge 3bet is seeing a flop. [/ QUOTE ] I don't agree at all (or else I wouldn't have 4bet this small). It's not like his 99 is getting odds to setmine or AQ/AJ can call and see a flop. He may sometimes call with these hands, but I don't think it's that often at all.
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#26
10-03-2007, 01:31 AM
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Re: 4bet bluff vs 2p2er flops top pair
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] also - why is him checking behind on the flop such a bad thing? you still have 2 streets to try and extract value. [/ QUOTE ] ck/bet/bet looks wayyy stronger than shove or bet/bet imo. [/ QUOTE ] But you are assuming he won't stab at the pot himself. A lot of times opponents will makes moves at A-high flops, hoping hero was on KK/QQ/JJ and is now freezing up. [/ QUOTE ] jeez what kind of range are you putting him on? he has just called a 4-bet ffs, he hasn't got suited connectors and [censored]. 95% of his range has showdown value, maybe he will take a stab with something like KQs or turn 99 into a bluff to move you off a bigger overpair, but i think he'll want to get to showdown with most of his range. [/ QUOTE ] OP's 4bet wasnt exactly a hefty repop. it's 65 more for a huge pot. anything pudge 3bet is seeing a flop. [/ QUOTE ] I don't agree at all (or else I wouldn't have 4bet this small). It's not like his 99 is getting odds to setmine or AQ/AJ can call and see a flop. He may sometimes call with these hands, but I don't think it's that often at all. [/ QUOTE ] agreed, i think sometimes he calls with AQ/KQ/AJ hands, but it's absurd to say he calls with his whole 3-betting range. too early for results?
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#27
10-03-2007, 01:32 AM
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Re: 4bet bluff vs 2p2er flops top pair
wa/wb w
why is this so long
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#28
10-03-2007, 01:33 AM
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Re: 4bet bluff vs 2p2er flops top pair
[ QUOTE ]
agreed, i think sometimes he calls with AQ/KQ/AJ hands, but it's absurd to say he calls with his whole 3-betting range. too early for results? [/ QUOTE ] want to bet on this?
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#30
10-03-2007, 01:35 AM
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Re: 4bet bluff vs 2p2er flops top pair
[ QUOTE ]
wa/wb w why is this so long [/ QUOTE ] Because my range is perfectly merged. I'm obviously not going how to play perfectly against me although consider that I think you are an unknown and I how that affects me view of your 4betting range.
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