Stars 3r, 66 in SB facing raise

helter skelter · #1 08-31-2007, 02:02 PM

This kind of situation comes up from time to time:

In one of the blinds

A good player raises

Hand seems too good to throw away but not good enough to re-raise allin with but calling leads to tough post-flop decisions

almost wish I had been dealt crap

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1000 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO (t38306)
Button (t78470)
Hero (t38643)
BB (t14460)
UTG (t20426)
UTG+1 (t15728)
MP1 (t6531)
MP2 (t28133)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 raises to t4000, 2 folds,

Villain is more aggressive than most of the table but not overly so. I don't really think he is stealing, but I perceive him as a good player so my questions are:

what would his range be?

how do I react to pre-flop raise?

JammyDodga · #2 08-31-2007, 04:03 PM

I think you just fold, 66 isn't that good. You are going to have to be able to fold better hands than this if the situation aint right.

Here, you are OOP on the flop, and stacks arent quite deep enough to go for set value.

If you think he is raising light, i think a push here isn't that out of order, but you say he isn't...

dhillon33 · #3 08-31-2007, 04:42 PM

either re-raise since your OOP (defense tatic) or fold pre-flop

call would be my last line, but it's not bad i guess, could get lucky and rake a big one

helter skelter · #4 08-31-2007, 10:28 PM

Well, I decided to call.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1000 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO (t38306)
Button (t78470)
Hero (t38643)
BB (t14460)
UTG (t20426)
UTG+1 (t15728)
MP1 (t6531)
MP2 (t28133)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 raises to t4000, 2 folds, Hero calls t3500, 1 fold.

Flop: (t8200) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Now what?

FuriousD · #5 08-31-2007, 10:45 PM

You are not getting good set odds. You are out of position. The likely range of MP2 raising 4x is way ahead of your hand. If he somehow has 55 here, what can you do about it?

Fold.

One more thing. If he's raising 4x this deep in the tournament, I doubt he's good.

FuriousD · #6 08-31-2007, 10:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
either re-raise since your OOP (defense tatic) or fold pre-flop

call would be my last line, but it's not bad i guess, could get lucky and rake a big one

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't rake that big a pot: look at the stack sizes. If villain raised to 3x with the same stack and we were on the button, calling would be okay -- the combination of position and better set odds make the difference.

If the villain were in the cutoff his range is wider but I still think folding would be prudent unless you were to determine that 4x was his standard raise and that he would steal using that bet size.

SuperUberBob · #7 08-31-2007, 10:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I decided to call.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1000 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO (t38306)
Button (t78470)
Hero (t38643)
BB (t14460)
UTG (t20426)
UTG+1 (t15728)
MP1 (t6531)
MP2 (t28133)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 raises to t4000, 2 folds, Hero calls t3500, 1 fold.

Flop: (t8200) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Now what?

[/ QUOTE ]

CRAI. Villain will likely c-bet any flop. CRAI can be a power poker move as he probably won't call unless he has a queen.

Either that or check/fold when you miss the set. I might do the latter more often than the former.

To me, it's a shove/fold situation before the flop. I can lay it down given the stack sizes though.

dhillon33 · #8 09-01-2007, 12:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
either re-raise since your OOP (defense tatic) or fold pre-flop

call would be my last line, but it's not bad i guess, could get lucky and rake a big one

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't rake that big a pot: look at the stack sizes. If villain raised to 3x with the same stack and we were on the button, calling would be okay -- the combination of position and better set odds make the difference.

If the villain were in the cutoff his range is wider but I still think folding would be prudent unless you were to determine that 4x was his standard raise and that he would steal using that bet size.

[/ QUOTE ]

your right now that i think about it....maybe if the flop came A J 6 and he had AK? that's what i meant by a big pot

i know alot of conditions need to occur for it to happen, but that's why i said you COULD rake a big one
[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

benza13 · #9 09-01-2007, 12:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is more aggressive than most of the table but not overly so. I don't really think he is stealing, but I perceive him as a good player

[/ QUOTE ]

Good players don't open raise to 4x this deep.

PF should be push/fold. Calling is the worst option here.

His stack and the size of his raise make me lean a little more towards fold, although in a game situation I probably push too often here. If 4x is his standard raise size then I am more likely to push here as that makes his range much wider than a general 4x range obv.

FuriousD · #10 09-01-2007, 02:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
either re-raise since your OOP (defense tatic) or fold pre-flop

call would be my last line, but it's not bad i guess, could get lucky and rake a big one

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't rake that big a pot: look at the stack sizes. If villain raised to 3x with the same stack and we were on the button, calling would be okay -- the combination of position and better set odds make the difference.

If the villain were in the cutoff his range is wider but I still think folding would be prudent unless you were to determine that 4x was his standard raise and that he would steal using that bet size.

[/ QUOTE ]

your right now that i think about it....maybe if the flop came A J 6 and he had AK? that's what i meant by a big pot

i know alot of conditions need to occur for it to happen, but that's why i said you COULD rake a big one
[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I was referring to stack sizes -- even if you do stack him, you are risking 3000 to win a little more than 30,000. I guess that's good enough that calling can't be considered bad. I still wouldn't do it.

I'd call if his stack was bigger and we therefore have more chips to win.

Also, if he had raised less, we would have a much more desirable ratio between his stack and the amount we are risking.