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#1
03-01-2007, 01:22 AM
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Observant donk tips my hand
What recourse does one really have when somebody at the table who is NOT in the hand makes observations out loud about physical tells? I had this happen to me last Saturday in a $1/$2 game. I had just put a player in for his last $45 and he was contemplating a call. He did NOT notice the tell, because when it was pointed out, he insta-folded.
After the player mucked, I let me emotion get the best of me and I lashed out at the player who made the observation. She really didn't have a clue how to bet or value hands, but she was really pretty good at watching people. Anyway, likely because of my tone, she became defiant and wouldn't even acknowledge that she had influenced the hand. I had to prod the dealer just to get him to inform the player of the rules. I'm not even sure at this point she understood the correlation between her observation and what it meant about my hand, but my opponent sure did. The whole incident really steamed me and I was playing sub-optimal poker for about the next hour - not really concentrating. I feel like not only did the donk cost me $45 by tipping my hand, but she also got rewarded when I called one of those "I know better than to call" bets from her later on the less than pot-odds-correct chance that it would bust her off the table and get her out of my face. I'm thinking maybe asking for a table change would have been a good idea. Any other suggestions? I'm normally pretty easy-going at the table, but this was just so over the line (from my perspective anyway) that I didn't handle it well. Question Two: What if I am seated with this same player again? Just ignore the history? What if history repeats? We really did not get along at all that night from that point and I was tempted to share my observations of her with the table to make my point. To tell the truth, I probably would have, but it would have been too instructional for her and I wanted her to bust out and go home - which she eventually did. 
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#2
03-01-2007, 03:16 AM
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Re: Observant donk tips my hand
False-tell and show her the nut low when she folds.
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#3
03-01-2007, 09:20 AM
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Re: Observant donk tips my hand
The tell was a quickened pulse rate. It's a little hard to fake, but I actually tried that by letting myself get angry all over again. I didn't have the nut low, just a marginal hand that I didn't want seeing any more action. The problem is that this was the very next hand when she actually had a hand.
She was a very dangerous player to bluff and she had position on me. I don't think she folded to a single c-bet all night (TP-crap-K, 3rd pair, draw....all good enough for her to call). I eventually decided to make a smaller c-bet and if I got heads up with her bluff the turn since she clearly wanted to see 4 cards before she would go away. This worked better. I couldn't show her the bluff since I finally found one that would work. Maybe instead of a table change, a seat change to her left would work. She was eventually felted, but it would have been much more satisfying if I was the one raking her chips.
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#4
03-01-2007, 09:26 AM
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Re: Observant donk tips my hand
[ QUOTE ]
The tell was a quickened pulse rate. [/ QUOTE ] She saw your wrist pulsating quicker? I don't understand how this in and of itself is a visible tell...
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#6
03-01-2007, 10:17 AM
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Re: Observant donk tips my hand
[ QUOTE ]
More likely the neck. It's kinda like the shaky hands tell. If you see a vein on somebody's forehead or neck throbbing, you know they have a monster or at least they think they do. [/ QUOTE ] I've never seen/heard of this tell...I don't think I'm observant enough to catch it. I'll stick to my obvious stare down vs. avoiding eye contact and such. In any case, I don't think it's worth yelling at another player. Simply point it out to her nicely (she'll be more receptive), and ask the dealer to iterate the rules as necessary in future pots. If necessary, call the floor if the same player continues despite warnings.
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#7
03-01-2007, 10:25 AM
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Re: Observant donk tips my hand
Doyle talks about this one (I think in Supersystem, but it might have been an article) as one of the most reliable tells because it's so hard to fake.
I actually apologized to the player later for the way I handled it. She in turn said that she was sorry "...that you thought it affected the play". I didn't say anything, but that pissed me off more. That wasn't an apology. She was clearly saying it was my issue. Fact is, the guy was contemplating a call, she called out the tell and he mucked quickly. I was really happy to see her AA get cracked a couple of hands later.
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