Adjusting to loose live play after playing tight internet games

PorkchopDJG · #1 01-23-2007, 12:57 PM

I have been playing more live at the local cardrooms lately and have noticed a striking difference in how loose/passive LHE live games (4/8, 6/12) at casinos play compared to the tight/aggressive LHE games (1/2,2/4) on Ultimatebet where I play online. It really is like night or day playing at one compared to the other.

Typical Ultimatebet hand I raise from middle pos everyone folds or I raise from late pos get reraised from button. Miss the flop with my AJ button bets and I fold.
Typical casino hand I raise from early position With AQ three cold callers behind and BB call. Flop comes AJT with two hearts, I bet it gets raised and called twice back to me and I fold it gets played to the river three ways and guy wins with flopped straight.

You can see from the examples that these games play completely different meaning you have to make major adjustments to your game. You can semi-bluff, checkraise and bluff online because people will fold where live these things rarely work because most likely one or two players will call you down to the riv anyway. In the live game you pretty much wait to flop huge hands, value bet and get paid off with a big pot.
I just wanted to put this out there and get other people's views and opinions if they see this so prominently when they play live vs. online.

usaftrevor · #2 01-23-2007, 01:01 PM

try the NL, that'll really throw ya for a loop.

JJH3984 · #3 01-23-2007, 01:02 PM

in the hand you reference, thats a pretty bad fold (if i understand the action correctly).

jively · #4 01-23-2007, 01:17 PM

Your response is absolutely correct. Another big adjustment you need to make is starting hands. You probably don't follow a "starting hands" chart at your level, but in SSHE, the "tight" table, 3-5 to the flop, plays better online, and the "loose" table, 6-8 to the flop, plays better live. So, with a hand like K9s you can limp from any position.

-Tom

Brad1970 · #5 01-23-2007, 01:20 PM

Porkchop,

I have played the stakes you mentioned in a casino for quite awhile. IMO, most of these type players are the tourist/newbie-that-learned-from-TV types (or gumpy old locals..) that came all the way to the casino, rented a room, gonna stay all weekend. That means that they will play nearly every hand for any amount & never fold because they came to GAMBLE not sit on the sidelines & fold all the time. They want action. One casino game is the same as another to them...poker, slots, blackjack, whatever. "You can't win if you're not in the hand"...that's a quote I heard from one of these types.

In a nutshell, these are the players that feed the poker machine but variance can be rough when playing with them.

Your pockets Aces don't stand much of a chance when 8 people are chasing you to the river!!! [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

AKQJ10 · #6 01-23-2007, 01:33 PM

You're absolutely right. Go reread SSHE (you do own SSHE, yes?) keeping in mind that loose live games are what Ed was originally writing about.

Here's an Ed Miller quote to think about:

[ QUOTE ]
Clearly online games have gotten tougher over the last couple of years, especially the limit games. Guys that made $100k or more playing limit in 2004 can’t come anywhere near that number now. Virtually all the guys I know who played limit online for a living have now moved to no limit games, even though they play limit better.

[/ QUOTE ]

PorkchopDJG · #7 01-23-2007, 01:45 PM

Yes, I own and have read SSHE several times. You and Ed are right that these live games I play are precisely the types of games he describes in that book.
They can be very profitable if you play as he suggests but can also have a lot of variance and be very frustrating if your big pairs continually are drawn out on and big draws miss.
I just find it facinating how different these games are from online limit games. maybe I should make the online swith to NL as well.

And to the guy who said bad fold on the casino example you are probably right so lets change it to I had AQ spades and called the post flop raise but folded when the 2 of hearts hit the turn and it was bet and called three ways behind me.

Any other thoughts or opinions on online/live differences?

Yawning Chain · #8 01-23-2007, 01:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]

In a nutshell, these are the players that feed the poker machine but variance can be rough when playing with them.

Your pockets Aces don't stand much of a chance when 8 people are chasing you to the river!!! [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said! SSHE is an absolute must read if you want to make those kind of games profitable. Even if you master the priciples put forth in Ed Miller's book it is going to be a wild ride. Expect lots of variance. Also, learn to be okay with getting sucked out on. It will seem like it is happening alot. However, all those extra bets from loose players who don't hit will end up in your pocket and that is where you will crush the game in the long run.

Best of Luck!

AKQJ10 · #9 01-23-2007, 01:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Your pockets Aces don't stand much of a chance when 8 people are chasing you to the river!!! [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh goodie, I get to try out a boilerplate response!

No, you're wrong. Big pairs still have a huge equity advantage. Big pairs can make big hands and drag huge pots: big sets and full houses, even two pair where a blank pairs on board. And no matter what your selective memory tells you, overpairs win their fair share even in multiway pots; you just don't remember those days that aces held up to beat top pair of kings ten kicker.

Any time you can get people to put in money as an underdog you should do so. And a LOT of people in a $3/6 game will be happy to put in money as an underdog.

See SSHE, the part about AK as a drawing hand or why you should raise AJs or something like that, toward the back.

Brad1970 · #10 01-23-2007, 02:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Your pockets Aces don't stand much of a chance when 8 people are chasing you to the river!!! [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh goodie, I get to try out a boilerplate response!

No, you're wrong. Big pairs still have a huge equity advantage. Big pairs can make big hands and drag huge pots: big sets and full houses, even two pair where a blank pairs on board. And no matter what your selective memory tells you, overpairs win their fair share even in multiway pots; you just don't remember those days that aces held up to beat top pair of kings ten kicker.

Any time you can get people to put in money as an underdog you should do so. And a LOT of people in a $3/6 game will be happy to put in money as an underdog.

See SSHE, the part about AK as a drawing hand or why you should raise AJs or something like that, toward the back.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did not say that Aces weren't a good hand or that they never hold up. That sentence was intended to illustrate the fact that these numbnuts who play low limit casino holdem will chase you all the way & the more that chase you, the less apt your good hands are to hold up unimproved. I did not say never! Learn how to read between the lines!