77 vs two fish - NL $50 6m

[AZplaya]

Table full of fish, here mainly for deepstacked 45/25 that is btn in this hand. Overplayed or standard?

Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 PL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

UTG: $20
MP: $24.75
CO: $49.60
BTN: $187.10
SB: $15.25
Hero (BB): $51

UTG posts $0.50
Pre-Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $1.10</font>, 2 folds, BTN calls $1.10, SB calls $0.85, <font color="red">Hero raises to $5.50</font>, UTG calls $4.40, BTN calls $4.40, SB folds

Flop: ($17.60) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $14.50</font>, UTG folds, BTN calls $14.50

Turn: ($46.60) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $23.30</font>, Hero folds

Results: $46.60 Pot ($2.30 Rake)

[C4LL4W4Y]

i prefer calling preflop out of the BB, btn i may consider a raise but i'd probably call in most spots.

against multiple fish, it's going to be hard to get to showdown with this hand.

[kurto]

I think this play works better with decent players. Trying to bet fish out of pots who'll call with anything is spewage. (and I know from experience)

You're never going to get them to fold a hand that's beating you preflop and often they'll call with any overs... which may be fine except that if they hit anything post, they're not folding. More then have the deck is a scare card for you.

These players will pay you off with TPTK... so play postflop against them. Don't try to bully them preflop. It simply doesn't work.

[Lostit]

I might be playing weak, but I think I'm calling the preflop and closing out the action. Normally I want 10-1 pot odds for my pocket pairs. I realize this hand would be 4-way you called preflop, but I have to think that I will only end up heads up with one of the 3 realistically and the other 2 will bug out. I only have a 1 in 3 shot of it being the button. Since the other 2 are short stacked, any raise that they call will put them at less than 10-1 going to the flop.

I also like to see as many flops as I can against these 45/25 donkeys, not pushing in more than I should with a marginal hand OOP.

*** Azplaya, thanks for the kind words last night when Donkalina sucked out that queen on the river for that 3.5 buyin pot. Nothin worse than the poker gods lettin a fish off the hook, after you perfectly execute a play to get them all in with nothing but a 2-outer to pray for.

[directscooter]

I think I play it the same was as OP.. maybe bet a little bit less on the flop but this looks fine to me. Lots of dead money in the pot so a squeeze is good... J55, I would assume usually misses them so good c bet. I would also be willing to gamble a little bit more here because we are trying to build a stack to chase down the big stacked fish.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I play it the same was as OP.. maybe bet a little bit less on the flop but this looks fine to me. Lots of dead money in the pot so a squeeze is good... J55, I would assume usually misses them so good c bet. I would also be willing to gamble a little bit more here because we are trying to build a stack to chase down the big stacked fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

A squeeze is only good if you have fold equity. The original raiser is an EP shortstack... they're not folding. If the first guy doesn't fold, the second guy is calling too.

You're hoping to take it preflop (not likely against this crowd)... otherwise, 7s just aren't that strong. 77s is one of those hands that, even against these villains, your a coinflip or totally dominated. And you've priced yourself out of playing for setvalue.

Why not see a cheap flop with 7s? These guys definitely pay you off if you hit.

[Logun]

I find these situations the hardest - PP 55-99 OOP.
I prefer to set mine - or at least flop something like OE

once I smooth call PF I might lead a flop like this some of the time and re-eval a double barrel on the turn if called.

as played ... ahhh.. yah I don't mind teh fold

[directscooter]

Why is UTG not folding? People fold almost everything to a three bet at NL50... (admittedly, my recent experience from NL50 is only about 10k hands). UTG is obviously not a good player, he posted UTG, and made a small raise, and then they just started coming along... I think it is a great spot for it. I think we have great FE here. It is not just the FE of the preflop bet, because sometimes people will call wanting to see a flop, but also from the Cbet we know we are going to do most of the time. If one of these guys has AA-QQ they probably 4bet us preflop, possibly the same with AK, but when they don't they are definitely looking to hit the flop... here the opponent probably hit AJ,KJ,QJ or JJ because I think most of them fold 1010 or less to our cbet. Again, I took a few months off, but the vibe that I have gotten from NL50 so far is that people fold almost everything to a three bet, and if not they fold the flop unless they connect, UNLESS you have a definite read that they are a calling station.

Edit: I do agree that 77 is not the type of hand that you want to go to showdown unimproved with, but that is ok, many of our squeezes will be with non stellar hands just trying to jump on the situation.

Edit 2: I should mention that I do not think calling for set value is incorrect at all. I think it is a fine play, I am just trying to ramp up my aggression a little, and I do not think there is all that much value if we do flop a set here. UTG can have any 2 and only has 2/5 of a buyin if he does have AA-QQ, etc.

[AZplaya]

fwiw flop bet is exactly amount that UTG has left...I probably bet less otherwise.

[absoludicrous]

Why raise an UTG raiser? 45/25 is liable to call/float any flop. Moreover, you're against two players...

Just call PF, and set mine. That's standard against players like this. No sense in playing a big pot OOP against two loose/agg players.