Set faces big river raise

[capone0]

This could easily be a 2 pair hand. This guy is a maniac. I don't think folding is in order. There are 2 straights, 1 which makes no sense on the flop calling. I put him on some 2 pair hand which the OP does beat.

[4_2_it]

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I would usually fold the flop (but not always).

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Weak-tight? huh [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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You forgot to add paranoid, most weak-tighties would wait until the turn to fold bottom set [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

OP - get more money in the pot on the flop.

[myfutureself]

I dunno. Why would he reraise the river if he had two pair and there is a clear straight on the board? Also hero didn't put in a serious bet until the straight appeared so if I were villian I would be thinking hero might have the straight.
Also if he had two pair then which two pair. Is the 8 part of it? If so what is the other card. If it was A8 then a flop bet was in order. If it was 8* then why the preflop raise?

[capone0]

Do you think he min raised pf with K10. Min bet the flop with a gut. Called the turn bet with the straight and then overbet the river? I guess that's the only logical case. I can see this being AQ, AJ, etc. At worse A8. The straight isn't obvious, it's a ghetto gut shot. I'd be more inclinded for him to have a higher set then a combo like K10 but that's just me. The way it was played out, I can't stand the flop call but that's just me.

[mistermuni]

Preflop isn't terrible, is it? Is open raising to 4xbb mandatory w/ small pps?

Anyway, the big mistake is on the flop. leading into him for 2/3 pot is okay, or if you check, do it with the intention of c/r-ing (in this case to around 28).

Only reason to slowplay is if you think he can catch up and make a 2nd best hand. Like AJ spiking a J on the turn, or something bizarre like that. This board is very hard to catch up on without making a straight or hand that beats you.

AKA start building the pot on the flop. If he folds, he would have folded to aggression on the turn 99% of the time anyway.

[Jim C]

I definitely agree with all of you that my flop play was really, really bad.

I disagree about preflop, however. This guy is calling all the raised pots because he wants to be a part of them. Part of the reason for a 4x BB raise here MUST be that we pick up the blinds, correct? Perhaps I'm misapplying the idea, but Sklansky discusses playing in LP when you *know* you are going to be called and suggests that the raise loses most or all of its value (unless you are raising strictly for value). I'm totally open to the idea that we want to put in a "sweetener" raise PF with this hand, but with a guy that will give us action anyway, is this really necessary?

FWIW, he had KT, and I screwed myself by not playing the flop faster. I'm a winning mid-stakes limit player, where I almost *never* slowplay sets on the flop. I'm still adjusting to NL and I think I am slowplaying too much.

Thanks to everyone who replied. More discussion about the preflop would be great. Am I correct that the reason to raise is to pick up the pot preflop or with a flop CB? My thought with this guy to my left was to let him bet inferior hands and use his aggression to let him hang himself.

Jim

[wslee00]

you raise pf b/c:
1) you sometimes pick up the blinds
2) you can take it down w/ cbet if villain misses
3) you get to play in a raised pot when you hit your set, increasing your odds of stacking somebody

[patgerrity]

you played this hand really poorly, and as hard as it is to fold you probobaly have to on this river, you dont have that much invested, no reason to stack off agasint this donk, and have him showdown like KT or qq or something. Huge overbet usually means nuts, even for retards.

[AtticusFinch]

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this guy isn't doing this with 2 pair.

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No? I think 2 pair is his most likely hand, probably A-J.

[myfutureself]

Re: preflop. I would consider reraising before the flop. If the guy is a maniac you often won't know where you are with 66 after the flop. On the other hand if he is a maniac who is raising with mediocre hands then maybe reraise him (eg 3x his bet) with the 66. You have a pair and he probably doesn't. It would also cool him down if he called (maniacs are not stupid) and pave the way for a CB on the flop. Usually he will just fold his average hand and you just get his money. This makes up for some of the blinds he will inevitably steal from you later!

I also used to slowplay flops in NL but I gave it up after some bad beats. Now I only do it with a monster flop (not trips).