Rudy G's Tough Talk

[pvn]

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it runs in my family to be in some industry that deals with helping people.

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Hey, that runs in my family too. Everyone who trades with other people in a voluntary manner is helping people.

I'm wondering what industries *don't* deal with "helping people". It seems to me that the primary candidates for such would be those industries that have to be funded through violence.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it runs in my family to be in some industry that deals with helping people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, that runs in my family too. Everyone who trades with other people in a voluntary manner is helping people.

I'm wondering what industries *don't* deal with "helping people". It seems to me that the primary candidates for such would be those industries that have to be funded through violence.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's an interesting (I hope) hijack: What does "helping" someone mean? In context of transactions, I would put forth that "helping" someone means engaging in a transaction with the goal of meeting their preferences. I suppose that you wouldn't actually do that unless you include helping them as part of your preferences, so that defintion may be poorly worded.

[ThaSaltCracka]

transactions should benefit all parties involved.

[pvn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it runs in my family to be in some industry that deals with helping people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, that runs in my family too. Everyone who trades with other people in a voluntary manner is helping people.

I'm wondering what industries *don't* deal with "helping people". It seems to me that the primary candidates for such would be those industries that have to be funded through violence.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's an interesting (I hope) hijack: What does "helping" someone mean? In context of transactions, I would put forth that "helping" someone means engaging in a transaction with the goal of meeting their preferences. I suppose that you wouldn't actually do that unless you include helping them as part of your preferences, so that defintion may be poorly worded.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to meet their preferences in order to get them to consent to the transaction. So any voluntary transaction is *by definition* helping some other person.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
You have to meet their preferences in order to get them to consent to the transaction. So any voluntary transaction is *by definition* helping some other person.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, but it seems there are two possibilities:

- You set out to meet your preferences, and incidentally find someone who will transact with you because it also meets their preferences
- You set out to identify people that deserve to have their preferences met in your opinion, and transact with them even if your preferences (other than your preference to feel good about helping them) are not met

[pvn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have to meet their preferences in order to get them to consent to the transaction. So any voluntary transaction is *by definition* helping some other person.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, but it seems there are two possibilities:

- You set out to meet your preferences, and incidentally find someone who will transact with you because it also meets their preferences
- You set out to identify people that deserve to have their preferences met in your opinion, and transact with them even if your preferences (other than your preference to feel good about helping them) are not met

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems that in the latter case, transacting with them IS your preference. So you still can't transact without satisfying your own preference.

And I don't see what this has to do with anything. My level of enjoyment of a particular activity doesn't have anything to do with whether or not that activity helps another person.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems that in the latter case, transacting with them IS your preference. So you still can't transact without satisfying your own preference.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right - I guess I am saying that when your choice to participate in the transaction is based on your preference to see their preferences met, then that's what people probably mean by "helping" someone.

When your choice to transact with someone is based on meeting some other preference of yours, the fact that it also meets someone elses preference is incidental and isn't typically what someone would call "helping" someone.

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And I don't see what this has to do with anything.

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Not a lot, except that there is a certain "saintliness" that is associated with helping people. I don't know if everyone who can find somebody to take the opposite side of a transaction should granted the connotative saintiness associated with saying that they are out there "helping" people.

[adios]

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...If you think Bush's policies are correct and want to continue fracturing relations with the rest of the world then he is your man. ...

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Uh haven't Sarkozy and Merkel developed friendlier relations with the U.S. recently? I don't know, it seems to me that at least Europe has developed a much better relationship with the U.S. and is more aligned with U.S. foriegn policy interests. Also hasn't Bush had at least some success recently in various negotiations with Russia, North Korea, and Iran to name a few.

[pvn]

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And I don't see what this has to do with anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not a lot, except that there is a certain "saintliness" that is associated with helping people. I don't know if everyone who can find somebody to take the opposite side of a transaction should granted the connotative saintiness associated with saying that they are out there "helping" people.

[/ QUOTE ]

I sure think Henry Ford helped a helluva lot of people. A saint.

[Adam Carolla]

I think I've figured out what Rudy is thinking:

He believes that terrorists attack us because they hate our freedoms. So, if the govt takes away all the people's freedom, then terrorists won't have any reason to hate us! BIMO