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#21
08-13-2007, 04:43 PM
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Re: Calling the floor to replace a misdealt turn card?
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the idea is that the 7 has the same chance to come on the river as any other card. [/ QUOTE ] The 7 of spades has a better chance of coming than any other card. Assume a 10 player game, there are are 46 unknown cards on the river so a random card has a 1/46 chance of coming. Since the 7 of spades is known to be in the stub it has a 1/25 chance of coming on the river. In Omaha it has a 1/5 chance of coming on the river (in a 10 handed game). 
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#22
08-13-2007, 05:36 PM
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Re: Calling the floor to replace a misdealt turn card?
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Then you shuffle the 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] back into the remaining deck and deal the river with no burn. You have already burned for the turn and river by this point and the idea is that the 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] has the same chance to come on the river as any other card. [/ QUOTE ] How does burning or not burning on the river after the 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] went back into the deck have any effect on the odds of it coming out? Unless I'm misunderstanding you, the burn doesn't affect the odds at all, you could burn one card or 10 (the 7 could be burnt, could be right below the burn, could be on the bottom of the deck, doesn't matter odds-wise), the 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is one of those cards and has a 1 in however many cards are left in the deck chance of coming out on the river. That said I've had this happen at Foxwoods before and it was handled the same way (river becomes turn, shuffle original turn back in, no river burn). It was pretty crappy for me as the would-have-been turn card gave me TPTK and 4 to the nut flush [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
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#23
08-13-2007, 05:40 PM
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Re: Calling the floor to replace a misdealt turn card?
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Is this done to make sure the "river card" still winds up on the board or something? That seems dumb since no one knows what the river card is and its irrelevant whereas removing the 7s from the deck while dealing the turn actually affects the hand. [/ QUOTE ] Heh heh. You've played in a casino, right. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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#25
08-13-2007, 07:32 PM
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Re: Calling the floor to replace a misdealt turn card?
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[ QUOTE ] But, again, since she didn't and if his hand won't become live again, does it matter any more? [/ QUOTE ] You mean, aside from the fact that the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] may have just killed my hand... [/ QUOTE ] Well, then, are you willing to give the hand back to the person who mucked? Because that would be why it matters at all, right? To be clear, I agree you should call the floor here, but if the mucking player's hand will still be dead, isn't calling for a new card a bit of an angle-shoot? I'm frankly not sure on this, so I'm not arguing, just putting forth the question. This is again assuming that the mucking player's hand will still be mucked regardless of the decision.
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#27
08-13-2007, 08:30 PM
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Re: Calling the floor to replace a misdealt turn card?
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Yes--in fact, the floorman said, as he was explaining the procedure to the dealer and the rest of the table, "O.K., first burn and turn what would have been the river..." [/ QUOTE ] Am I alone in finding this justification highly illogical? Why are we making it impossible for the 7s to hit the turn? Wouldn't it be unfair to a player with few outs, say a gutshot, if he hit one of them on the turn in a similar situation only to see one of his 4 outs (and the actual turn card) taken out of the deck for a street in the name of preserving a river card that is supposed to be completely random and unknown anyway?
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#28
08-13-2007, 10:49 PM
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Re: Calling the floor to replace a misdealt turn card?
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If the mucking player's hand will still be dead, isn't calling for a new card a bit of an angle-shoot? [/ QUOTE ] The player who mucked thought that he was pulling an angle-shoot, I think, so I don't have any sympathy over the fact that he threw away his hand when faced with what he assumed was the turn card (without having called the flop bot). But you raise an interesting point--is it an angle-shoot to invoke the rules, which by doing so will cause this bad card for me to go away?
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#29
08-14-2007, 12:38 AM
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Re: Calling the floor to replace a misdealt turn card?
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But you raise an interesting point--is it an angle-shoot to invoke the rules, which by doing so will cause this bad card for me to go away? [/ QUOTE ] With a semi-competent dealer, there is no issue of "invoking the rules", since he would know them and follow them. Rules are not "optional". Except, of course, the "string bet" rule.
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