PL 5/10 King high flush

[RollinHand]

So I'm playing some 5/10, max buyin is 500.
It's 4 handed.
Both my opponents in this hand has around 700.
I have 500.

I'm in the SB with 2s 8d Qd Ks
CO limps (he's very loose agressive after the flop and I would consider him kinda bad)
BTN limps in as well(which he had done alot, probably a passive player but no read reads). Hero completes SB (not the best hand but I do think it has some value)
BB checks.(I've played with him before, I would say that he knows what he is doing)

Flop: [9s 8s Td] Pot:$40
Hero checks, BB checks, CO bet $30, BTN calls, Hero calls. BB folds
Turn: [9s 8s Td 5s] Pot: $180
Hero bets 92, BB folds. CO and BTN calls.

River: [9s 8s Td 5s 3c] Pot: $436
Hero checks, CO bets $436 BTN calls $436.
Hero has $368 left and ???

I'm pretty sure CO has the nut low here (maybe even A4xx) but I'm not sure about BTN.
This was a pretty tricky spot for me and I wasn't quite sure what to do.

I think I screwed up on the flop, kinda dangerous to call here but I ended up making it. Makes the rest of the hand easier if I just fold or lead at the pot.

On the turn I kinda bet for value and to find out where I stood. Since CO is so agressive he might pot it with a naked A2xx so I didnt really like checking it here. He would probably just call with a set if he had one.

On the river the low hit and I didn't feel like betting out again, didn't see that much value in doing so.

I hate playing Hi hands in this game, esp OOP. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
Suggestions, thoughts?
Thx!

[neverforgetlol]

Fold the flop, when you get a bet and a call on a 2 high card board you are against the nut flush draw quite a bit, and even if you are not you have to pay a lot to find out, all the while dodging paired boards and such as well.

[gergery]

how much value can it have when you turn the second nuts and still have to post the hand to ask advice?

[RollinHand]

Just some [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Not much, I fold if it's not double suited. I guess that's why I tought it had some value.

Basicly what I'm wondering is how often I should call or fold this river? Odds are tempting but I will only win half the pot if I'm right.

Here's a question, if I had Ad4dQsKs do I push,check call or fold? It's basicly the same hand as 2s 8d Qd Ks in this spot right?

I did end up making the call on the river, one of the reasons why I felt that my hand could be good was because when CO bet pot on the river he and btn had like 120 left behind. So when BTN just flat calls I figured that he didn't have much.

[bbartlog]

I don't like the turn bet. It's small enough that someone may call you with just the nut low draw, but big enough that someone who has the ace-high flush can comfortably flat call knowing that they'll still be able to get it all in on the river. In general I think that if you had been thinking ahead to the next street(s) and figuring that you'd be willing to get it all in, you should have been pushing a little harder to begin with just to get some fold equity. So pot-raise flop (or fold), check turn or pot it if you're going to bet at all. I think I favor the flop fold and the turn check though.
As for button flat-calling on river, I don't think you can read weakness from that. I would expect him to put CO on the nut low (just as you did), and if he has the A-high flush but not the nut low then most of his profit would be from getting you to call; it would be pointless for him to do anything (like raising) that would make it more likely for him to get HU with the CO for a 50/50 split.

[franknagaijr]

[ QUOTE ]
As for button flat-calling on river, I don't think you can read weakness from that. I would expect him to put CO on the nut low (just as you did), and if he has the A-high flush but not the nut low then most of his profit would be from getting you to call; it would be pointless for him to do anything (like raising) that would make it more likely for him to get HU with the CO for a 50/50 split.

[/ QUOTE ]


Please correct my thinking if I'm off base here.


Reasonable hands for a turn check-reraise by button (or cutoff) might include:
Nut low with weak flush?
Nut flush, with the expectation of quartering two nut lows?

Reasonable hands for a turn check-call by button might include:
Nut low, hoping to not get quartered.
Outside straight flush draw
made straight flush (would have raised the river, or been the first to bet?)
Nut flush, with a nagging fear of the straight flush
Nut flush, hoping to get it in on the river and quarter two lows
Optimistic and misguided straight with 2nd nut low (very unlikely given the river calls)

I don't think I could make the river call here, but would not rule it out if there wasn't a straight flush possibility here.