A hand that a friend asked me to post

[MitchL]

A friend pm'ed me this hand and I thought it would be good to post. I wont say my stance on the hand, its mostly for his benefit. Anyway this is either Cbury 6-12 or 8-16. x-post.

I raise red A K UTG. Get several callers including a very passive old man. He never raised anytime with anything.

Flop: A 8c 10c
I bet, two callers including old man.

Turn: 9c
I check, old man bets. I fold.

[JJH3984]

.... I don't get it. I think the turn and river are both b/f against a passive old man. AQ, AJ, Ax lower than 8 are all well within his range.

[One Outer]

I think the point may be that the old man is so passive that the range of hands that he's betting himself on the flush and straight card has hero crushed the vast majority of the time. For hero it would be -EV to even b/f because hero is drawing dead and/or really far behind so often to his range.

That isn't to say that I agree with it. I really don't have an opinion. I would need way more information. Against a typical passive old guy at the CP I would probably b/f and would need a solid read to c/f the turn.

[MitchL]

I am trying to make a point to the hero in this hand and you have both correctly identified the opposing views.

Edit to add-Hero has been at the table for about 2hrs.

[One Outer]

Now I don't get it. What's the point? I feel like I did something wrong.

[StrictlyStrategy]

If this guy shows you A8 you're getting odds to call the turn.

[MitchL]

[ QUOTE ]
Now I don't get it. What's the point? I feel like I did something wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you identified both viewpoints correctly.

Ill say my view after a few more posts

[One Outer]

Ok. I've spent a couple of minutes thinking about this. However, and I recognize that it's unlikely you know, it would be helpful to know who this villain was if he's a reg.

I think a lot of players will peel that flop very light, especially passive ones. The board is real drawy and it's the kind of board that you will see a lot of people peel with like the J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], KQ with one club, QT, Q9 or Q8 with the Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], that sort of thing. So I think just checking to the callers is probably -EV. They're peeling light often enough that b/f is +EV, especially on that card because opponents will often peel again while you still have an edge.

Given that, we are well ahead of that guys peeling range and should have b/f the turn. I'm not calling passive guys turn raise.

Once villain bets his own hand, though, that significantly tightens up his range. He is not betting any of those peeling hands. I think his range is heavily tilted towards the big stuff, straight, flush, slowplayed set. The only hands I can think of that a very passive player might play that way where I can continue the hand are AK-AJ. They'll cc preflop and then just call straight down with that stuff all the time. Once you show some sort of weakness they may wake up and bet but I think we have to heavily discount this because of the board texture and OP's read.

[BubbleMint]

If the A on the flop is Ac, I c/f. If not I b/f.

[sparky3474]

Raise the turn and see what happens. What would Ed say here, you are getting about 9 to 1 here and folding for 1 bet and did I mention you have TPTK