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#101
10-01-2006, 02:23 AM
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Re: Who is a better hitter? (Poll)
[ QUOTE ]
Batting average is still the quantity of hits - it's just adjusted for playing time. Neither hit total nor batting average measure the quality of the hit. Why are you treating all hits the same when determining who's the better hitter? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] motorholdem, [ QUOTE ] Player A hits .300 and hits nothing but singles. Player B hits .290 and hits nothing but triples. Player A is a better hitter by your measure? [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] No....of course not. [/ QUOTE ] But since Player A has both more hits and the higher batting average, he is a better hitter by your measure. By your standard (most hits, higher average) Freddy Sanchez is a better hitter than Albert Pujols and Miguel Cabrera. Do you really believe that? [/ QUOTE ] lol See the bold...The post didn't say the number of hits each person had. But hey, why let that fact get in the way, Jack. Instead, you just inject a statistic that isn't there, and then attribute me a position based on the inclusion of that stat. Neat way to debate. I had called you strawman, beacause in this debate that is your primary tactic. I'm not sure what the term is when one stoops to this desperate form of debate. If its that important to you I can just say "you win" and won't have to lower yourself to these tactics. 
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#102
10-01-2006, 02:31 AM
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Re: Who is a better hitter? (Poll)
[ QUOTE ]
Average refers to quantity. [/ QUOTE ] Joe Brown has a batting average of .300. How many (quantity) hits did he have?
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#103
10-01-2006, 02:43 AM
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Re: Who is a better hitter? (Poll)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Average refers to quantity. [/ QUOTE ] Joe Brown has a batting average of .300. How many (quantity) hits did he have? [/ QUOTE ] More than another person who hits .280 under the same amount of at bats. You are just being extremely silly and LOL at you saying people are stooping to low levels and using strawman arguments.
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#104
10-01-2006, 02:58 AM
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Re: Who is a better hitter? (Poll)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Average refers to quantity. [/ QUOTE ] Joe Brown has a batting average of .300. How many (quantity) hits did he have? [/ QUOTE ] More than another person who hits .280 under the same amount of at bats. You are just being extremely silly and LOL at you saying people are stooping to low levels and using strawman arguments. [/ QUOTE ] Ok ....average refers to quantity, but just not in a way you can "quantify." You and I both know that you can have a .300 hitter with 3 hits, 125 hits or 210 hits. While average is calulated using quantity, it in no way "refers" to it. So, given an average, what can one determine about the quantity that was used to help arrive at the average?........absolutely nothing. period.
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#105
10-01-2006, 03:15 AM
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Re: Who is a better hitter? (Poll)
[ QUOTE ]
You're going around in circles. If you concede that given two players with equal batting averages and unequal slugging percentages you can pick which one is the better hitter, then you're conceding that quality of the hit factors into it. Otherwise just say "higher batting average" instead of "better hitter." [/ QUOTE ] If I could change the OPs question, I would.
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#106
10-01-2006, 06:00 AM
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Re: Who is a better hitter? (Poll)
[ QUOTE ]
Ok ....average refers to quantity, but just not in a way you can "quantify." [/ QUOTE ] So now the NUMBER of hits is relevant? Please explain why the number of hits Ichiro gets is more relevant than the number of on-base apperances for each player. Be sure to factor in the quality of the hits, if you care about that at all.
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#108
10-01-2006, 12:08 PM
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Re: Who is a better hitter? (Poll)
Motorholdem,
You can define "better" pretty easily. As for your defintion of hitter. I can define "hitter" however I want to prove my argument. I can define the best hitter. As the tallest person in which case Dunn is clearly a better hitter. Based on what you have said in this thread Freddy Sanchez is a better "hitter" than Miguel Cabrera, but you would rather have Miguel Cabrera on your team. Despite the fact Miggy is worse at defense(I think) and an equally good base runner(I think).
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#109
10-01-2006, 01:18 PM
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Re: Who is a better hitter? (Poll)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Ok ....average refers to quantity, but just not in a way you can "quantify." [/ QUOTE ] So now the NUMBER of hits is relevant? Please explain why the number of hits Ichiro gets is more relevant than the number of on-base apperances for each player. Be sure to factor in the quality of the hits, if you care about that at all. [/ QUOTE ] That was my sarcastic remark to UCF about his claim that average refers to quantity.... When I asked him to tell me how many hits a .300 hitter had, he couldn't, so I responded.. Ok ....average refers to quantity, but just not in a way you can "quantify." The "you" meant UCF, not me. Do you guys find this entertaining, taking even taking my sarcastic responses and then framing them as my position? We all know that when people can't refute your position, they will resort to all kinds of ways to make it look like your wrong.
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#110
10-01-2006, 01:39 PM
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Re: Who is a better hitter? (Poll)
[ QUOTE ]
Motorholdem, You can define "better" pretty easily. As for your defintion of hitter. I can define "hitter" however I want to prove my argument. I can define the best hitter. As the tallest person in which case Dunn is clearly a better hitter. Based on what you have said in this thread Freddy Sanchez is a better "hitter" than Miguel Cabrera, but you would rather have Miguel Cabrera on your team. Despite the fact Miggy is worse at defense(I think) and an equally good base runner(I think). [/ QUOTE ] Hi. I was thinking that average was more a longer term thing. Bringing in the Bretts, Gwynns, Boggs, Williams type players. I can't say Sanchez is a better "hitter" than Cabrera based on one year. And yes, I'd rather have Cabrera on my team, because the limited "scope" of "hitting" in the OPs question is only one factor in the question of who is a better player. Remember the 5 tools of baseball. Hitting and hitting for power are 2 different tools, and for good reason. The category of hitting did not capture power (or quality). If it did, there would be no need to distinguish power hitting from hitting. And that's why the OPs question sucked. It was too limiting. If I conceded all your arguments that "quality" mattered in the "better hitter" agrgument, would you all agree to merge hitting and power hitting and agree that there are now only 4 tools in baseball?? Because when you insert quality in to the better hitting argument, that is essentially what you are all doing - trying to factor power into the question.
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