Calling myself into oblivion...5 live full-ring 25/50 hands...

[dlpnyc21]

Game is 25/50 live game at a private club. Usually I like to be the aggressor in hands but people bluff a lot at these clubs so sometimes it's better to call down. However, this forces you to make a lot of tough decisions and you can look like a donkey a lot of times. Note that in all of these hands the villian's tendencies are critical. Advice on all sreets welcome.

To call or not to call?

Hand 1: Middle pair, he bets all streets.

Limper from LP, Villian raises button or CO to 600, I call with KdJx from the BB, limper calls. To start the hand, I have approximately 10kish. Villian in the hand is a 2p2er, we have played many hours together and respect each other's games. He has made some fairly large bluffs against me and vice versa, so I know he is capable of a lot, and he knows that I know that.

Flop comes QJx two diamonds. I check, chk, he bets 1200 I call. Turn is another brick, I check, he bets 2600, I think for a long time and just call. River is a blank 10, I check again and he quickly shoves me in. I?


Hand 2: I slowplay QQ.
I start the hand with around 20kish. Game is playing really wild, with one of the players stuck a TON and raising 40% of flops to 1k+ (nyu dave for those that know him). He makes it 1k in late position, CO calls, I just call QQ on button. I know this is a mistake, and normally I reraise pre, but I was looking to see a flop with no ace or king and try and get a lot of money in against NYU Dave. Ralphie, for those that know him he is a very strong, thinking player who trusts his reads very strongly, thinks for a long while before calling from the blinds. Flop is J105r. Ralph checks, chk, chk, I bet 2.5k. Ralphie very quickly checkraises everyone AI for 11k more. I??


Hand 3: KK gets cracked?
We're about 20k deep to start the hand. NYU Dave makes it 300 to go pre I reraise in position to 1200 with KK. Everyone else folds he calls. Flop is A87 two diamonds. Check, I chk. Who likes a bet here? Turn Qo. He bets 2k I call. River 6 he very quickly bets 8k. I??? Again, this player is capable of running huge bluffs but he also is very good about getting value from his big hands.

Hand 4: Trips?
NYU Dave makes it 1k to go from early position, player to my right calls, I call with 86cc, thinking a few other players would call behind. In retrospect, this call was a mistake because NYU only had around 10k to start the hand. Flop comes Q106r. Chks around. Turn 6. He bets 1k. Other player folds, I call. River Q, he shoves in for around 8k.

Hand 5: Big pair pre.
NYU Dave makes it 1k to go pre, button calls, I wake up with QQ in SB and make it 5k to go pre. I have around 20k to start the hand, having NYU just barely covered. NYU Dave calls other guy folds. Flop comes Kh10h5x. I don't have the Qh. I bet 6k? Is this a mistake? He thinks for a bit and shoves in, I??



Advice on all hands/all streets welcome. Just fyi, I did not lose all of these hands, and I may or may not post results, it depends on the responses I get.

Thank you,
dlpnyc21

[TheWorstPlayer]

I have no idea what to say but I think these hands are really interesting. I hope the fact that there are 5 in one post doesn't discourage discussion because I've very curious to hear people's thoughts.

[king_of_drafts]

1. I fold for obvious reasons, but I could see calling if there are some dynamics/reads you left out

2. I think calling preflop to go for a "safe flop" is terrible, but I think calling to flop a highly disguised set is fine this deep. Sounds like Ralph was unsure whether or not to reraise TT or JJ, I'd fold

3. I think this kinda depends on how bad he's steaming at this point and how self-aware he is of how you perceive him...hard for anyone to give you a good answer here except yourself. Flop is fine either way but obv bet sometimes

4. I snap call, you look kinda like Tx or a draw. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see him have the case six

5. Sick. I think bet/call is better for metagame and may even be +EV in the immediate situation. Again, hard to say, some of these live decisions feel a lot different as they are happening and that is really crucial in close situations like this obv

[dlpnyc21]

[ QUOTE ]
1. I fold for obvious reasons, but I could see calling if there are some dynamics/reads you left out

2. I think calling preflop to go for a "safe flop" is terrible, but I think calling to flop a highly disguised set is fine this deep. Sounds like Ralph was unsure whether or not to reraise TT or JJ, I'd fold

3. I think this kinda depends on how bad he's steaming at this point and how self-aware he is of how you perceive him...hard for anyone to give you a good answer here except yourself. Flop is fine either way but obv bet sometimes

4. I snap call, you look kinda like Tx or a draw. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see him have the case six

5. Sick. I think bet/call is better for metagame and may even be +EV in the immediate situation. Again, hard to say, some of these live decisions feel a lot different as they are happening and that is really crucial in close situations like this obv

[/ QUOTE ]


Note on hand 2: I don't think Ralph will ever show AA/KK pre here because he knows NYU dave will call a reraise pre.

[dlpnyc21]

[ QUOTE ]
1. I fold for obvious reasons, but I could see calling if there are some dynamics/reads you left out

2. I think calling preflop to go for a "safe flop" is terrible, but I think calling to flop a highly disguised set is fine this deep. Sounds like Ralph was unsure whether or not to reraise TT or JJ, I'd fold

3. I think this kinda depends on how bad he's steaming at this point and how self-aware he is of how you perceive him...hard for anyone to give you a good answer here except yourself. Flop is fine either way but obv bet sometimes

4. I snap call, you look kinda like Tx or a draw. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see him have the case six

5. Sick. I think bet/call is better for metagame and may even be +EV in the immediate situation. Again, hard to say, some of these live decisions feel a lot different as they are happening and that is really crucial in close situations like this obv

[/ QUOTE ]


Another hand which was a bad beat (I think) was I raise AK, NYU dave reraises me from blinds to around 1500. I call. Flop is J44. He acts like he is going to bet, then checks. I check behind. Turn K. He bets 7k (overbet). I call, leaving myself around 6-7k behind. River 3, he shoves, I call he shows 48o for trips. I'm not sure this hand helps things but it shows what he is capable of.

With QQ, calling for set value (this deep) was also a part of my reasoning.

[FatalError]

are 20bb open raises the norm in new york?

[dlpnyc21]

[ QUOTE ]
are 20bb open raises the norm in new york?

[/ QUOTE ]

a standard raise in a deep 25/50 live game with 300+bb stacks is 300-500, depending on limpers. Can surely be more, though.

[EmpireMaker2]

[ QUOTE ]
are 20bb open raises the norm in new york?

[/ QUOTE ]

This game would be great for you

[cero_z]

Hi dlp,

Most of us can't tell you much about these hands, since they're all so player- and context-dependent. Here are my quick answers, FWIW.

Hand 1: Dumb pre-flop call vs. a good player. Fold the turn. Fold the river, he most likely puts you on a Q or J with a mid-kicker after your turn call, or a combo draw, and many of those improved on the river, yet he shoved. Of course, when you check the river, he "knows" you probably don't have 2 pair+, so I could see him bluffing here, but not often enough. Also, he may suspect you are rope-a-doping after that long pause on the turn (I would) and v-bet a very large number with a strong hand.

2: No clue. Call, I guess. The guy's on tilt, make it 4-5k pre-flop.

3: No idea. Sometimes you have to call this.

4: HORRENDOUS pre-flop call. Wow. Just let it go, Man. But on the river, call super-fast; he knows a Q is so unlikely for you, and thinks you can't call without one.

5: Very tough spot, but it sounds like vs. this guy you have to call. I don't know, though; he'd have to be fairly nuts to try to bluff you here. Sounds like he is, though.

[jcmoussa]

Hand 1: i dont get the preflop call at all. i fold the flop i think.

Hand 2: I check this flop and trying to keep the pot small with QQ here.. Im putting the guy on the BB on probably 1010 or JJ.

Hand 3: Based on the 48o hand, i bet youre going to be shown Ax and this is value.

Hand 4: Preflop....you know. I think he's putting you on A10 or something, i call.

Hand 5: Wow i have no idea what to do here, sick spot dude.