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#21
04-09-2007, 11:12 PM
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Re: Lessons from a Botched Upgrade
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I will further guarantee to you, that seamlessly going from database version x.3 to y.8 is a mere triviality [/ QUOTE ] lol [/ QUOTE ] It's just as trivial as dropping your car off for a few days to have the 50,000 mile maintenance and a bit of body work - while you drive the loaner. Even if it takes an extra day, no problem; when you show up, all you need to do is remember to transfer your maps, briefcase and lunch from one car to another. Get the point? [/ QUOTE ] I get your point. It's just that you don't know what you're talking about. The analogy you just gave clearly illustrates that. [/ QUOTE ] I'll fill in the blanks for the technologically challenged community, whose interests are so well-represented by Neuge. The functional test system configuration has been deployed in the staging area, where it has been running for weeks. It has been under continuous testing, at an artificially high load. It has been passing all of its performance and usability metrics. It is meeting all the requirements and expectations laid out in the plan. It has been synchronized daily against the real system. In essence, it is now functioning as a hot standby. The time has come to switch over. After the most recent synchronization, it is a trivial matter to transfer the delta (lunch, briefcase and maps) to the standby system, and to switch the deployment from A to B. The rate of incoming data here is quite small. The switchover would be done at off-peak hours to compensate for the chance that something might go wrong. It would be a very bad surprise if something were to go wrong - since this same scenario has been tested every day of the past week. But still, planning should cover all contingencies. Sorry, but it's really just that simple schematically - if you know what you're talking about. 
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#22
04-09-2007, 11:17 PM
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Re: Lessons from a Botched Upgrade
there won't be any major changes now for at least 6 weeks.
it would be very helpful if we can revisit all these topics as we get closer to said changes. i know that people have offered many helpful suggestions over the past year and many of them were lost in the shuffle. i won't promise that our next attempts will be successful, but you can be damned sure we'll try harder. anyway. I 'm not trying to stop comments here. I just want everyone to be aware that any comments made now aren't being ignored, and when the process of upgrading the forums begins anew, please feel free to refresh our memory of today.
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#23
04-09-2007, 11:35 PM
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Re: Lessons from a Botched Upgrade
To Phil153, the lovable idiot non-savant who just deleted his post:
Quoting Phil's deleted response: [ QUOTE ] I don't know a damn thing about 2+2's backend/business but I can say most of these points are worthless. [ QUOTE ] Choose your technical staff wisely. [/ QUOTE ] As opposed to unwisely? [/ QUOTE ] Well, yes. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You know your business, techies know technology. [/ QUOTE ] From what I understand, they paid the freaking development guy to work on parts of the upgrade for them. [/ QUOTE ] From what you understand, did they get what they paid for? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Many techies will be able to understand your business. [/ QUOTE ] And? [/ QUOTE ] And they would know that shaving 1 day from a 3 day procedure won't cut it when the business requires a transparent procedure? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] It's your job to find one. -- Remember that your techie works for you. [/ QUOTE ] But I thought that technies know technology...shouldn't you tell them what you want and leave them be? [/ QUOTE ] Absolutely not - you manage them. The technical plan they develop must meet your business requirements, and it must pass review. You need to arrange to provide whatever is needed for the plan, and you need to monitor the testing results on an ongoing basis. That's what managers do. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Consider your reasons for upgrading. [/ QUOTE ] Better performance, version able to receive security updates, coincides with site design upgrade, improved features requested by many members, enables future tweaks. [/ QUOTE ] Very good. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] -- What are you trying to accomplish? What are you risking? [/ QUOTE ] 1. See above. 2. Nothing. [/ QUOTE ] Nothing? That's pretty funny, Phil, given the experience of the last three days. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] What are the drawbacks to upgrading? The benefits? [/ QUOTE ] I'm sure this question occurred to them. I mean... [/ QUOTE ] I'm sure you'd be surprised at how many businesses have been crushed by far less. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] What if you decided just to stand still? Any problems? [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Is this for business reasons, or for your techie? [/ QUOTE ] Wait, I thought technies knew their stuff, and we know business. If a technie says an upgrade is good, should we not listen? [/ QUOTE ] If you've taken the time to read through this thread, you now have learned enough to answer this question. I bet Ryan could set you straight on this. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Plan your upgrade. [/ QUOTE ] Plenty of planning went into this upgrade. [/ QUOTE ] I have a problem with either the word "plenty" or "planning"; I just don't know which one. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Test your upgrade first [/ QUOTE ] Um, putting it one the archiver server doesn't count?? [/ QUOTE ] Um, apparently not!! [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Your customers are not a testbed. -- Use a separate staging area. [/ QUOTE ] That's not always easy or viable. 2+2 isn't a multi billion dollar company. [/ QUOTE ] LOL at multi billion. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] -- Use artificial load generation to simulate real life. [/ QUOTE ] This is where they may have had room for improvement; hard to know without specifics. [ QUOTE ] Be sure that the new features are working as you hope. -- Remember to check that the basic stuff still works. -- Make a testbed beta available to some helpful customers. [/ QUOTE ] They did all this. [/ QUOTE ] I'm sure they tried to address what they thought of. Next time, they'll think of more. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] -- Review the planned benefits, every point. All proven? -- Review the risks, every point. Satisfied? -- If your techie didn't do all of this, you screwed up; bad hire, learn the lesson. - If things look good, announce your planned upgrade -- Give plenty of warning to your customers -- Give yourself plenty of time to back out -- Remember that the software works for you, not vice-versa - Finish your testing -- Don't hurry. -- Don't be afraid to back out; believe your own eyes. -- Accept a schedule slip if it's too early to decide. -- Remember that you are in charge. - Go for it -- After all your worries are satisfied, pull the trigger. [/ QUOTE ] Um, they did every one of these things too. How is copy pasting some random internet advice helpful? [/ QUOTE ] No copy pasting here; just the points as they occurred to me, many of which obviously were not followed. Especially the parts about managing the technological process. Hey Phil, are you the same groundhog that missed seeing his shadow recently, and said that spring would have come by now? Nice track record, rodent boy.
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#25
04-09-2007, 11:38 PM
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Re: Lessons from a Botched Upgrade
[ QUOTE ]
To Phil, the lovable idiot non-savant who just deleted his post [/ QUOTE ] Fromm, I deleted it because I realized after reading your other replies that you're beyond help, and will take any criticism of your "expert advice" personally. So there's no point to it. Unfortunately I didn't delete it fast enough.
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#26
04-09-2007, 11:44 PM
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Re: Lessons from a Botched Upgrade
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] To Phil, the lovable idiot non-savant who just deleted his post [/ QUOTE ] Fromm, I deleted it because I realized after reading your other replies that you're beyond help, and will take any criticism of your "expert advice" personally. So there's no point to it. Unfortunately I didn't delete it fast enough. [/ QUOTE ] And now you have to live with your ignorance recorded prominently for all eternity. Even if all data is lost in the next upgrade, people will still be able to laugh at you via Google cached pages.
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#29
04-09-2007, 11:51 PM
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Re: Lessons from a Botched Upgrade
Mat, since so many people like to talk about it, maybe they'll put their efforts where their mouth is...
With all of the active members, maybe you can round up 500 or so to do a live test of the next rollout, before fully implementing/releasing. That might help with the load testing. For an incentive, offer them a 70% discount on their forum renewal fee for 2008.
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#30
04-10-2007, 12:05 AM
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Re: Lessons from a Botched Upgrade
fromm,
My problem is that the points in the OP are so wide as to be of limited use. What I suggest is that with your expertise, you could be gracious enough to offer more concrete suggestions that these guys can use. [ QUOTE ] Choose your technical staff wisely. [/ QUOTE ] Example: who should they be hiring to do this? Where should they be looking? Why? [ QUOTE ] - Test your upgrade first -- Your customers are not a testbed. -- Use a separate staging area. Use artificial load generation to simulate real life. [/ QUOTE ] Briefly describe how this is done, who they'd hire, what setup they'd need, etc, to give them a feel for the process. Maybe provide websites with further information that you know from your profession. If these guys are as green as you suggest then a couple of hundred words on this stuff could be very useful. As it is the OP is kind of vague.
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