Which top pair do you like better?

Aaron W. · #1 08-11-2007, 03:31 PM

Consider the following two situations:

Hand #1

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Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)

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Hand 2

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 4 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)

[/ QUOTE ]

Is one hand stronger than the other or are they roughly the same? As always, justify your position carefully. (Analyze the hands as presented here, don't try to incorporate any reads from the original hands.)

Fantam · #2 08-11-2007, 03:43 PM

I prefer the 1st hand to the second hand.

Both hands are vulnerable to draws, with the flush draw being slightly more dangerous than the straight draw, but otherwise approximately the same.

The 1st hand is vulnerable to 2 overcards as opposed to just 1 overcard for the 2nd hand. So this is also somewhat worse for the 1st hand.

However, I prefer the 1st hand because if you pair your kicker it would not put a possible straight on the board. Whereas this would happen if you paired your kicker in the 2nd hand.

KitCloudkicker · #3 08-11-2007, 03:48 PM

Post deleted by KitCloudkicker

Aaron W. · #4 08-11-2007, 03:50 PM

Post deleted by Aaron W. because Kit deleted his

KitCloudkicker · #5 08-11-2007, 03:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
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hand 2 is stronger. having only one overcard is big, and there are only 2 limpers in the hand vs 3 for the QT hand.

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Count again...

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lol beat me to it by a microsecond.

i still like hand 2 for the overcard reasons i mentioned.
and although the kicker makes a straight, there are only 2 straights (AJ and J9), and AJ would have likely raised preflop.

Buzz-cp · #6 08-11-2007, 03:53 PM

I think Hand 2 will probably hold up better (low variance), but also it's likely we have the best hand. We would not expect KK,QQ,AK, and KQ is somewhat discounted. KJ (or 66 less often) are the only hands we really might worry about here, the board is rainbow, and we have BDSD to bail us out.

Hand 1 looks good, although we probably have slightly more equity than a flush draw if we consider other hands that may be out (QJ,KQ,77,33). We also don't have any decent redraws if the flush comes in.

Buzz

NIX · #7 08-11-2007, 04:01 PM

I like the second one better for four reasons.

1) Less likely to be dominated. People will limp KQ/QJ and sometimes AQ. People are less likely to limp AK and KQ is looking less likely because of the queen on board.
2) More hands can profitably call us down in the second situation. In hand one, there aren't a lot of worse queens floating around that people will play. Q9sQ8s maybe, but that's it. The straight draw is kinda raggy and 7x and 3x aren't likely for a lot of people. The flush draw will pay us off though. In the second hand, there are random Kx suited hands. They aren't overly likely, but moreso than Qxs. People play queens that can pay us and the straight draw is in people's limping ranges.
3) Less overcards to worry about. Only an ace can hurt us is hand two while a king is also bad news in hand one.
4) It's not a lot, but we do have a backdoor straight draw in hand two.

I think the top pair in hand one is a little bit stronger hand, but less profitable. The top pair in hand two is more vulnerable, but I think it's a more profitable situation.

JJack · #8 08-11-2007, 04:16 PM

at hand 2) we also have less chance that villians hit set cus onky possible set is 666, and at 1) hand thare can be 2 sets: 333 and 777

Guitierez · #9 08-11-2007, 04:34 PM

I like hand 2 better for 3 reasons:

There's only one overcard to our pair
We have an additional backdoor straight draw
The board is rainbow

Entity · #10 08-11-2007, 05:54 PM

Strictly value-wise, I like #2 better. In terms of your hand "holding up," I like #1 a bit better, though it's fairly close (this goes with why I think there's more value to be had in #2 than in #1, of course). I'd be more inclined to be happy with #2 than #1 overall but it's pretty close and I wouldn't complain much about either. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Rob