BAH! Can I really fold this against a nit?

[mused01]

Villain is running 19/17 and we haven't tangled once.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($700.10)
Hero ($577.50)
Button ($278.10)
SB ($97.30)
BB ($481)
UTG ($625.60)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $16</font>, Button calls $16, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $12.

Flop: ($50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $40</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $116</font>, Button folds, BB calls $76.

Turn: ($282) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $180</font>, BB calls $180.

River: ($642) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $169 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls $169.

Final Pot: $980

[ipokeder]

lol? call

a very interesting aspect of this hand however is the flop play. any thoughts from anyone on the optimal way to play this hand? i don't really like flatting since we don't have any overcards and it makes our hand (kind of?) obvious if we hit, plus we pretty much have no chance of stacking any underflush except 67d, and raising seems like we're just asking to get reshoved by any set, dominating draw, even 46 and of course we're not committed to shove anyway. just seems like our hand's equity is really marginal but kind of too good to fold...

iono

[MatthewRyan]

bet more on turn came to mind immediately.

I do think a set would have pushed the flop or at least the turn, that would make me call, especially getting awesome odds

[MatthewRyan]

[ QUOTE ]
lol? obv RO, retarded thread.

a very interesting aspect of this hand however is the flop play. any thoughts from anyone on the optimal way to play this hand? i don't really like flatting since we don't have any overcards and it makes our hand (kind of?) obvious if we hit, plus we pretty much have no chance of stacking any underflush except 67d, and raising seems like we're just asking to get reshoved by any set, dominating draw, even 46 and of course we're not committed to shove anyway. just seems like our hand's equity is really marginal but kind of too good to fold...

iono

[/ QUOTE ]

def sometimes, not always, raise flop.

[ipokeder]

yeah but the thing about raising the flop is that there really is no upshot. is a nit really going to be leading this flop into 3 players with JTs or QTs? it would be great if he would flat a raise with QJd or something and then we could fold him out on a blank turn, but i think he's mostly reshoving the flop with any dominating fd, and the only fd's we're ahead of are combo draws and will be def shoving the flop.

i mean leading JT/QT onto this board just doesn't seem like something most 18/16's will be doing. maybe ATs or JJ, but that's still a pretty small part of his range, and a pretty good chance JJ is stacking off, maybe not AT though, and i doubt they'll be wanting to play turns if they are going to go broke.

[winningfish]

Flop bet should be somewhat smaller.
Turn bet should be bigger.
This hand should not be resolved on the river, instead the turn. You kinda tipped your hand that you had a flush but not a big one.

[captainwacky]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop bet should be somewhat smaller.
Turn bet should be bigger.
This hand should not be resolved on the river, instead the turn. You kinda tipped your hand that you had a flush but not a big one.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol... so he should..... minraise the flop, so the pot is smaller on the turn, and then overbet shove? and he didn't give away that he had a small flush. The only part I agree with is the turn shove, but only if there's a BIGGER flop bet. And the river is a gay crying call.

[Colombo]

The river isn't interesting at all.


I agree with ipokeder though, the flop is interesting. If you had like K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I like a flop raise here, but with 2 undercards, I'm not so sure. Do you think he'll fold the same % of his range if you float the flop and bet turn as opposed to raising the flop? I'm not sure what to do, but I'm leaning towards a call.

[winningfish]

[ QUOTE ]


lol... so he should..... minraise the flop, so the pot is smaller on the turn, and then overbet shove? and he didn't give away that he had a small flush. The only part I agree with is the turn shove, but only if there's a BIGGER flop bet. And the river is a gay crying call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say minraise, nor did I say anything else you claimed I said, d*ckhead.

The rest of your post "raise bigger on flop, shove turn, gay river call" is a joke.

[Colombo]

[ QUOTE ]
bet more on turn came to mind immediately.


[/ QUOTE ]

And the turn bet is fine imo. We have (basically) the nuts here. Why would we bet more and increase our FE when we are already betting over half of his stack? Bet less maybe, but 180 is fine.