Ugh... river donk

[Chipspin]

[ QUOTE ]
You are all nuts, raise/fold.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

This was my first instinct, but then I thought there's no way he calls the raise with the 8d, two pair, trips, or air or whatever.

[StrictlyStrategy]

[ QUOTE ]
Easy call. Raising is horrible and more horrible than horrible could be. Folding is bad given the pot size, the value of our hand, and the lack of a serious read on the opponent.

[/ QUOTE ]

You make it seem like we have bottom two here.

[private joker]

I'm just speaking from my experience at the Bellagio 15. Admittedly I'm exaggerating my pessimism about our hand, but it's just to combat a prevailing instinct to pick lines like raising rivers and folding to 3-bets. These lines might be better in online or high stakes games, but at 15/30 live, it's an easy and standard call I think. (I'm not even going to address the metagame benefits of calling here over raise/folding).

First of all, I can't remember the last time someone paid off a river raise on a 4-flush board with the 8-trump. Especially someone who has been described as TAG and doing nothing incredibly stupid. So I don't see the value in raising -- it will invite either a fold or a 3-bet, both of which suck for us.

Secondly, through experience, live tight-and-somewhat-aggressive players seem to adore check-calling the turn and leading the river with the nut flush. I've seen it so often that the betting pattern in this hand screams K-high flush to me. At Commerce they'll try a checkraise on this river sometimes if they're a tricky player, but at Bellagio they just donk it. I could be wrong, but I'm not crazy about our chances here.

[DeathDonkey]

Btw if I some how had air here I'd raise too (air = non flush) basically this guy has like 66 with the 6 of flush so play accordingly [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

-DeathDonkey

[private joker]

DD, obviously raising is a better play if you have air than if you have the J.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
You are all nuts, raise/fold.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

Psycho.

Rob

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
This happened a couple weeks ago and I just wanted a sanity check:

Bellagio 15/30

I open AJo as either the CO or button and get called by one or both of the blinds. The flop is AQ9 monotone giving me the J-high one card flush draw with my top pair. Checked to me, I bet and get called by one player. The turn is a suited T completing my second nut flush. Checked to me, I bet and get called. The river is an offsuit low card and villain donks. Villain seems like an okay TAG so far. Nothing special about his aggression that I've seen, not super-loose, and nothing incredibly stupid.

Is this an auto-call despite all of the high flush cards being out?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been all all sides of this one before posting, which is why I posted. I ended up with calling being the best play (which I did in this hand), following along similar lines of Private Joker, and it seems to be the general consensus.

Raise/fold - I liked this one because it sounds fun and exciting, but the truth is that I had no idea what he was donking, and when I have no idea what the villain is doing, I prefer to take a showdown line.

Fold - Admittedly, there is a large results-oriented side to this. He had KQo with the K-flush. It seems like whenever a generic TAGgish player takes a weird line, it's the nuts or close to it. This is probably a bit of selective memory. But it seems like the pot is too big and my hand too strong to be folding here without a read (and maybe even with a read).

As a follow-up question, let's say I had a one card K-high flush and the board was 9742 suited and villain donks. Do you change your line?