You make the call! Floor decision time...

[J.A.Sucker]

The action should stand. The floor screwed up an obvious one. The house rule at Bay 101 is the action stands if there's two actions behind you. In this case, the guy behidn the maniac (NG) called, the blinds acted, and the flop came out. There was then several actions after the flop.

The SB owes the money and the maniac guy has a right to be pissed. I suspect I know who the floor was and the maniac, too.

I hope you enjoyed your conversation with haakee.

[J.A.Sucker]

[ QUOTE ]
There is no raise. If multple people (blinds, dealer, and OP) proceed as if there was no raise the raiser needs to point out he raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

Somebody already called the raise and then I think the button folded. This is a slam dunk at Bay 101. Sorry, you are wrong on this one Randy. SB is shooting an angle here and the BB now has more information about the maniac's hand, which he is using now.

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
SB is shooting an angle here

[/ QUOTE ]

While NG was calling, I think the blinds were yelling "Don't raise! Don't raise!" and were 'relieved' to see NG only "limp" with a bunch of yellows not noticing MP initially raised.

I'm not sure about this. Although I see what you mean, I really think SB was trying to be honest. I think the fact after the flop he sees MP in the hand and knowing he raises every time it comes to him triggered to him that something was very wrong with the scenario.

[ QUOTE ]
BB now has more information about the maniac's hand, which he is using now.

[/ QUOTE ]

BB was not sophisticated enough to use the info about Maniac's hand. He's really not a good player.

[ QUOTE ]
I hope you enjoyed your conversation with haakee.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's been a couple of years since I saw him live, so yeah it was nice to chat while they sorted out the mess.

A side question: What's the dealer's responsibility in all this? Isn’t he/she supposed to keep track of the action too? Or does this become an internal matter between the dealer and management to be discussed after a push?

And to J.A.: In your DVD, if you hold a pocket pair, and your opponent has two overs with a gutshot on the flop, the pocket pair is the 60:40 favorite and not vice versa as mentioned. I’m guessing a 2nd edition isn’t coming out, so I’m telling you just for kicks.

Garland

[amuze]

Action should stand and if the SB owes the pot, he needs to put the money in. He attempted to call preflop clearly by putting in the 2 red chips etc.

BTW, I'm sure most people who have played at Bay 101 will agree, the floor there is absolutely horrendous. Not only do they make decisions in favor of their favorite regulars, but they aren't even very professional. Go to Lucky Chances to see how a real floor should be managed.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is no raise. If multple people (blinds, dealer, and OP) proceed as if there was no raise the raiser needs to point out he raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

Somebody already called the raise and then I think the button folded. This is a slam dunk at Bay 101. Sorry, you are wrong on this one Randy. SB is shooting an angle here and the BB now has more information about the maniac's hand, which he is using now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I misread the OP. I read it as the person putting in the yellow chips was the raiser.

[J.A.Sucker]

Garland,

Every player who was in that game last night is smart enough to use the information gained from this debacle in making a better decision. Even the bad ones.

Whether the SB was being honest or not doesn't matter. He owes the money. So does the BB. I would also tend to not believe anything the other players do - money talks - even for the nice guys.

I hope your conversation with haakee allowed you to get some of his seriously positive mojo that he's got going on right now. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I'm in the minority here with respect to the dealers. While they should run the games at lower limits, they aren't really supposed to do this at higher limits where the players know what's going on. Let the players run the game. However, the one thing they're supposed to do is make sure the pot is right. The dealer failed here, miserably (this is far worse than burning and turning too early, IMO). The dealer probably got a talking to after their push. It's not a discussion to be had at the table. The floorman was even worse here. Like I said, I'm sure I know who it was.

As for the DVD, yeah I misspoke about that one and didn't catch it during my edit walkthrough, and somebody pointed it out to me before. You're right. Mea culpa.

[J.A.Sucker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is no raise. If multple people (blinds, dealer, and OP) proceed as if there was no raise the raiser needs to point out he raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

Somebody already called the raise and then I think the button folded. This is a slam dunk at Bay 101. Sorry, you are wrong on this one Randy. SB is shooting an angle here and the BB now has more information about the maniac's hand, which he is using now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I misread the OP. I read it as the person putting in the yellow chips was the raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you agree with me, right?

[J.A.Sucker]

[ QUOTE ]

BTW, I'm sure most people who have played at Bay 101 will agree, the floor there is absolutely horrendous. Not only do they make decisions in favor of their favorite regulars, but they aren't even very professional. Go to Lucky Chances to see how a real floor should be managed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually think the floor there tends to be better than anywhere else. The dealers, too. However, they have lost one of their best floormen recently and they have hired lots of green dealers who make too many mistakes. By and large, it's still a hell of a lot better than LC's or anywhere else. It's just not as good as it used to be.

You do realize that LC's used to have all the games and they screwed things up, had so many problems, and treated the players so badly that they all went to Bay 101, right? Some things never change, and while the Bay isn't as good as it was before, it's light-years ahead of LC's.

[pfapfap]

Cripes, what a clusterfuk.

First, shame on the dealer. Tho' I gotta say, the mid limit games at some places can get quite nutty, especially with a live one. It's the donkishness and chip splashing of 3/6 with the speed of a higher game, except the players are a bit more pissy and critical. Still, even in my worst days, I can't imagine anyone at this level at the games I deal not holding me way the heck up preflop until the pot was right.

I think the fairest thing for all involved is to just let the SB and BB get a pass. The aggressor didn't notice the pot was wrong and there was plenty of time between then and the flop to say something, if not before his betting. So you annoy him by letting people in cheap, but he gets to keep his flop. SB is an angleshooter, so I really don't want to do anything that he wants. Setting the flop aside while dealing a new one off an unshuffled stub is about the worst possible solution.

I dunno, I'm not a floor, this one sucks.

[J.A.Sucker]

[ QUOTE ]
Cripes, what a clusterfuk.

First, shame on the dealer. Tho' I gotta say, the mid limit games at some places can get quite nutty, especially with a live one. It's the donkishness and chip splashing of 3/6 with the speed of a higher game, except the players are a bit more pissy and critical. Still, even in my worst days, I can't imagine anyone at this level at the games I deal not holding me way the heck up preflop until the pot was right.

I think the fairest thing for all involved is to just let the SB and BB get a pass. The aggressor didn't notice the pot was wrong and there was plenty of time between then and the flop to say something, if not before his betting. So you annoy him by letting people in cheap, but he gets to keep his flop. SB is an angleshooter, so I really don't want to do anything that he wants. Setting the flop aside while dealing a new one off an unshuffled stub is about the worst possible solution.

I dunno, I'm not a floor, this one sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear what you are saying, but in this case, there's a clear house rule. Everyone knows it. The floor really screwed up.

How is this any different than when somebody folds their hand when they have the BB and the pot is unraised? It goes into the pot. Same thing here.