Ugly bottom 2 pair decisions

[slush420]

Our first villain here is a 28/12/4.. would you push here?

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

MP: $10.85
CO: $6
BTN: $9.85
SB: $11.40
Hero (BB): $9.70
UTG: $13.95

Pre-Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)
UTG calls $0.10, 4 folds, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.25) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $0.20</font>, <font color="red">UTG raises to $0.40</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $0.90</font>, <font color="red">UTG raises to $2.50</font>, Hero ?

Villain here is 30/3/1.1

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

CO: $10.10
BTN: $23.25
Hero (SB): $17.15
BB: $18.75
UTG: $5.90

Pre-Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
UTG folds, CO calls $0.10, BTN calls $0.10, Hero calls $0.05, BB checks

Flop: ($0.40) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $0.30</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $0.60</font>, 2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1.70</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $3.40</font>, Hero ?

I have 50-60 hands on both villains

[kroeliewoelie]

First hand, b3b is fine, but your bet sizing is bad: he has to call 0,50 dollar in a 1.75 pot. Anything he raises you with will call that raise. Make it like 1.50 and see what happens. If he shoves I'd seriously consider folding.

Second hand, I have no idea. This guy is so passive preflop he could have anything, like AQ,KQ,QJ, bottom or middle set , 2 pair. (But you need to find out whether this guy raises premiums or not. A lot of these 3% PFR guys are of the "slowplay till I die"-type and will be raising things like KJo instead of premiums.) But since he 4bets you it really looks like a made hand. Try stoving it for a range. I gave it a try. Looks like a shove. But that depends a lot on how many one pair hands you think he does this with.

Board: Td Qs 6h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 45.186% 41.65% 03.54% 22265 1891.50 { TT, 66, AQs, KQs, QTs+, Q6s, T6s, AQo, KQo, QTo+, Q6o, T6o }
Hand 1: 54.814% 51.28% 03.54% 27412 1891.50 { Ts6s }

[Profish2285]

I would honestly probably fold both here. I mean how many villains play top pair this aggressively? I think reasonably youre looking at top two in both of the hands or possibly a set, both of which you obviously do not beat.

[Tito]

Yeah i would fold both of these. You have to be careful when you hold bottom two pair especially in an unraised pot. As a general rule, I never try to put my entire stack on the line in an unraised pot without a set or better. You have no idea what people are holding. Flopping bottom two is pretty exciting but it can get scary quickly because your hand is very vulnerable so play cautiously.

Looking back I would be more inclined to call the first hand due to his AF and then reevaluate on the turn.

[bozzer]

fold/fold, people don't muck around on dryish flops like this w/o the goods.

[ajrees]

[ QUOTE ]
$0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Kasane]

I don't think either of these is a fold, but it's been a little while since I played any 10NL.

I think both of these are feltable, but the bet sizing sucks so bad it hurts my eyes to look at 'em any more.

edit: hm, hand 2 might be a fold. Kinda deep for tiddly-winks and whatnot. Hand 1 is still easy. UTG limps with over pp's all the time and even TPTK thinks it's the nuts there.

[slush420]

well thanks for the responses.. ended up folding both and was wondering if I left anything on the table. I'm thinking a call in hand 1 might have been better but against the passive villain in hand 2 I think a 3 bet is almost always necessary here.