Science Education in America: Why I'm Homeschooling My Kid in Science

[plzleenowhammy]

in response to the op: how much of whether or not i get a job is based on how i look at my interview or how my resume is presented?... 80% of a grade being based on appearance is obvious nonsensery but organization is important.

[plzleenowhammy]

and as far as private schools vs. public schools:

isn't it true that private school teachers are required by law to get some sort of license? so even if you sent your kid to a private school they'd still be getting taught by the same teachers with the same licensing?

i could be wrong tho. correct if so.

[Nielsio]

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and as far as private schools vs. public schools:

isn't it true that private school teachers are required by law to get some sort of license? so even if you sent your kid to a private school they'd still be getting taught by the same teachers with the same licensing?

i could be wrong tho. correct if so.

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This is how they are trying to kill the last remaining private schools here in Holland. The schools try to compete but the state won't let them and try to force their 'standards' down their throat, and by doing so, outlawing competition once and for all.

[blufish]

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and as far as private schools vs. public schools:

isn't it true that private school teachers are required by law to get some sort of license? so even if you sent your kid to a private school they'd still be getting taught by the same teachers with the same licensing?

i could be wrong tho. correct if so.

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typically, in a public high school the teacher has to have a degree or pass a competency exam to teach a specific subject, i.e., you may have a degree in business, but if you can pass the economic competency exam, you may teach economics.

in a private high school this may or may not be the case. you could have a teacher with a degree in psychology teaching algebra or what not.

the biggest difference (besides above, which may or may not occur dependent upon the school) is discipline. public schools are terribly pc and refuse to discipline. private schools are much better at having an environment conducive to learning as they are able to pick and choose students. public schools have to take everyone...

[AWoodside]

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But if we assume complete market control over the education system - with no 'state' to hold up a big contract saying 'education for everyone' hanging over their heads - shouldn't we assume that in areas where having a school would be a net profit loss that atleast in some cases a school would not exist?

I guess what I'm saying is that there would be not right for education? No attempt at equalizing the possibilities (which I'll admit is not always carried out in a perfect manner by the state, but atleast it is an attempt)?

Oh I'm certain grants, scholarships, community effort and similar could take some weight off - but all?

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A voluntary society is not Utopia. Everything you just mentioned applies to the current status quo. Determining the relative degrees of inequality in each system is a difficult empirical question that is hard to get good data on. However, historically it certainly seems like countries that most closely approximate free-market systems tend to come out on top.

[BTirish]

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BTW, where is the objective evidence that the private system is so much better? I don't see a huge differential in published studies of the US education system, and that's despite the fact that the children of those with means tend to go these schools.

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First... there's nothing in OP comparing private and public schools. The blog post's immediate conclusion is that homeschooling, at least in one subject, is the answer. All Borodog said was "none of my children are going to public schools." I realize Borodog let his AC views show in his first reply in the thread... but there isn't a word said about private schools in the OP. You're the one who jumped to making this thread specifically about public vs. private schools in present-day America.

Second, as for this debate... I tend to agree, in general, with what ALawPoker has said on this point: you can't and shouldn't take private school performance in present-day America as an indication of what things would be like if there were no public education. Several times it's been asserted that "surely private schools must offer some advantage in education in order to compete and get parents to fork over money." Something that has been mentioned but not made clear in the thread is this: 85 percent of private schools in the U.S. are religiously affiliated, and half of these are Catholic.

The central advantage offered by private schools tends to be religious and cultural rather than strictly "educational" (where for whatever reason "education" just means math, reading, and science skills, and not also moral formation and religious instruction). This is why the vast majority of private schools are religiously affiliated.

In my own case, it wasn't principally that the local Catholic school offered a better "education" (again in the strict sense in which the term has been used in this thread) than our local public school--although at least in my case, this was also true. It was that the Catholic school offered religious instruction and didn't have any serious incidences of violence.

So, my point is that what drives most of the private education market isn't performance in secular academic subjects. Average pay in public schools is a bit higher than in private schools, and it's much higher on average than in Catholic schools, which have the lowest average tuition. The vast majority of people who make a lifetime commitment to teaching in private schools do so for reasons besides monetary gain.

Anyway, I've ended up going on and on about what this thread really wasn't about in the first place. The blog post linked by OP didn't say: "That's it! Private school for you!" He decided to take his son's education into his own hands.

If it's at all possible, my wife and I are planning on homeschooling, and we're willing to choose jobs and where we live to make it possible. In any event, we plan to be take a lot of responsibility for our children's education. Any teacher knows that, especially in the lower grades, what often makes the difference is parental involvement and support. But unfortunately it seems that, for many parents, schools--both private and public--have as their principal benefit functioning as a daycare with some educational benefits.

[tolbiny]

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Here it is again:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/19/op...mp;oref=slogin

This is a forum for evidence and rational discussion...not rants about the government.

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Atleast you tried.

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link doesn't work for me.

[SNOWBALL]

If the average american is so poorly educated from the school system, wouldn't it be even worse if these people tried to homeschool their kids? Personally, I think our education system has poor priorities, poor accountability, poor standards of success, and that a lot of the problems are fundamental to it's existence. However, scrapping absolutely everything is just a pretense to carry out your overall goal, which is to take away everything from the poor; all social services, all legal protections: everything.

[tolbiny]

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Why do you think this? If the government made us all pay a tax so that they could provide free sub sandwiches to everyone, and then they set up sub shops in every neighborhood where they gave away free subs, do you think this would improve or decrease the quality of food you'd be able to get from a private sub maker?

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It would increase the average quality of food from private sub-makers, while decreasing their number. This is because they have to compete with a free product. This competition will drive anyone who doesn't provide a premium, high-quality product out of business. Basic economics.

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So basic you might even say "fictitious." How would the intangible drive to "compete with a free product" (in the absence of magic wands or fairy god mothers) result in a market doing things that seem impossible?

They're not already doing their best to provide the best service?

Say I'm a professional baseball player. I'm working hard. Been perfecting my craft all my life, and working particularly hard the last few years. Lift weights an hour a day, 10 hours of cardio a week, 3 hours of batting practice every day. Spend lots of time with my coaches fine tuning my mechanics. Eat healthy, live healthy. Such a small edge between me and the next guy, and I want to maximize it. Everything is a well oiled machine. I've finally gotten to the point where I have enough of an edge to expect a starting job next season.

Then, baseball playing robots show up. They're a big step quicker, stronger, and just plain better than me. They do things I could only dream of. Do I (and my comrades) just magically "get better" because now there is a really high bar to compete with, or do you think maybe we're faced with something we just can't overcome, no matter how hard we might try?

The reason the subs are free at one place is not because the market found that price as an efficient solution. If such were the case, I would agree that this is great for the industry. But it's not the case. It's artificial. And no sub shop can compete with it (in the absence of holding a gun to someone's head and making them support my business). The result is you will eat stale bread.

Your post is actually pretty enlightening. I can actually see why people would support government interference in markets when they hold such flagrant misconceptions of how economics actually works.

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Excellent response, government interference in the markets has effects which are often not thought of or seen on the surface. Look at what happens to the cost of production- the government sub shop has to buy lots of bread but has few incentives to properly negotiate for that bread. Bread prices rise, and the other sub shops have to pay more for the basic products that go into a sandwich. Same thing happens to teachers, school books (which market would you aim a text book at, the private sector or public schools?), ect, ect.

[tolbiny]

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Have you read the sticky? I'm the one actually trying to have a discussion about the issue at hand, which is the state of public vs private education as relates to math and science.

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Hey phil If your so interested in having these discussions, why do you disappear from the threads as soon as some one posts a thought out and referenced reply, only to reappear making the same assertions months later without ever addressing the other person's position?