Muhammadanism WEBSITE...

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OP why do you assume that the guy who made this site is the central authority on all things muslim?

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Do you deny what he says ?

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I would, and that is based on the title of the website. There is no such thing as mohammadanism because any MUSLIM would know that this would be naming the religion after a "prophet" which is different from Christianity which is based on Christ.

The other statements are mostly nonsense and are approaching things from a very narrow point of view. Even the wiki paints a more accurate picture than that website. You may as well go to alquaida's website to get an interpretation depending on the results you are looking for.

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Just because it isnt named mohamadism means nothing, mohamad is the central character, and speaks for god in the koran, essentialy he is a christ-like figure. You say that wiki paints a more accurate picture...well, how do you know if you have never read the koran or at least books on it?


edit: I thought you said you have never read it, but got you confused w/ someoen else, so if Im wrong pls say so.


Have you read the koran? I have, and books to clarify it, basically "cliff notes" and in depth explorations (it was for a term paper). A lot of the koran is a handbook for war and fear mongering. A lot like the old testament was though, its just that christian extremists in the year 2007 are much much more benign than muslim extremists. Most muslims imo, are at a crossroads, do I believe that they really want to see people of other faiths slaughtered? no. do I think they have an irrational fear that if they dont support or do what the koran says they wont go to "heaven"? yes.

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I don't get it, why do you dismiss the OT and say most modern Christians are more tolerant while holding Muslims to the strict letter of the Koran? If modern Christians don't follow the horrible atrocities in the OT, how can you use the Koran as any evidence of anything at all? You might still have a point, but it is now COMPLETELY irrelevant what the Koran says. It matters only what the majority of Muslims actually DO.

I understand you are in a bit of a bind. If you choose to find horrible passages in the Koran (and there are plenty) and point to these as evidence that Muslims are dangerous, you are forced to admit that Christians are every bit as bad. You don't want to do this, and thats because Christians are NOT as bad as the Bible implies. But Muslims are. Because you said so. Or something.

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If your default response to

"Islam is bad because..."

or

"Muslims have a problem with..."

is the immediate

"but but Christians!"

is just an indication of the anti-Christian baggage you carry.

Many people here are very anti relgion and most were raised in Western, predominantly Christian countries and thus have alot of baggage towards that particular religion.

If someone says "Christians good, Muslims bad" then feel free to do the "but but Christians" stuff, but if you can't have a discussion on the merits/flaws of Islam by itself without going on an anti-Christian rant you're just blinded by your own issues.

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Except I am CONSTANTLY told that our country was built on the tenets of Christianity, so any discussion about morality, law or policy is implicitly a discussion about the superiority of Christianity. At least if you are an American.

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muhammadanism website

There is some FUNNY STUFF ON THIS WEBSITE it's not meant to be funny but it's funny.

Here is some exerpts

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Hollywood Is Scared
Hollywood loves to push the boundaries of social sensibilities. However, when it comes to the icons of Islam, Hollywood is fearful to produce a historically accurate movie of Muhammad’s life. Muhammad fought battles, beheaded hundreds of people, married many women — including a nine-year old girl when he was a 54 year old man, raided merchant caravans, flew during the night on a winged animal whose size was between a donkey and a horse to the temple mount in Jerusalem. If Jesus Christ had beheaded people, married many women or had robbed caravans, and flew around on a winged-donkey, Hollywood would have produced numerous films lampooning his life. However, Hollywood film directors and actors are afraid they would have their throats slit, if they produced a realistic movie of Muhammad’s life.



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I'm sure Rob Zombie would have no problem making a movie about muahmmmud

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Will the West die peacefully?
European’s Western civilization has left its Christian heritage and is dying and being replaced by Islam. So, will this transition be peaceful or filled with conflict? Europeans have lost the will to live and flourish as a moral and religious people. For Islam to become the dominate religion of Europe, Muslims have little more to do other than to continue to value their families and have children. Already, many of Europe’s leaders submit to Islam, blaming the Europeans themselves for the Muslim demonstrations and riots. Mentally, it is as if they have already accepted the status of dhimmitude.

A civilization dies when it diminishes the value of children. Many nations in the Western world have legalized abortion, developed birth control pills, and affirmed the homosexual lifestyle. Societies succumb when they demean married life, postpone marriage for as long as possible, engage in sexually promiscuous behavior, tolerate the drug culture, and value self-gratifying hedonism more than moral virtue. Biologically, Europe is dying! 11 Between North America (40+ million in the USA) and Europe, more than 100 million babies have been aborted. The numbers will increased due to the popularity of the French abortifacient pill Mifepristone (RU486). One article states there are More Abortions Than Births in Russia. Abortive societies loathe their own existence, valuing the death of their offspring more than life and the future. So, it is rather pointless for Muslims to engage in an unnecessary conflict, while the West is busy destroying itself.

Westerners are proud of their democracy, liberalism, scientific and technical advancements. In their pride, they assume that Muslim immigrants will adopt their Western values. However, many Muslims are appalled by Western moral standards, and they feel they should avoid the popular culture to preserve their families. Because they view the West as morally decadent, they return to Islam for spiritual, moral, social, and political guidance. Islam is their Complete Way of Life. Such was the case with Sayid Qutb, a key intellectual figure associated with the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, who became radicalized after visiting the West. On the other hand, Western TV programs show frenzied Muslim mobs rampaging through the streets and burning down buildings. So, the tension between Islam and the West continues to grow.



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Yes practicing safe sex, not spreading disease, having children you can afford to take care of, feeding, clothing them are all things that will destroy THE WEST.

Islam has more kids that live in misery but someday those kids will rule the U.S. ... Is that what this guy is saying ?

<font color="black"> Work with me on the next one cause it's big </font>

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One of the five pillars of Islam is the requirement that every Muslims contribute to the Islamic charity (alms) tax or Zakat. According to the Qur'an, the Zakat funds must be used for the following purposes.

The Fuqara poor. They are the poor who do not beg for support.
The Masakin. They are the poor who beg for support.
Those who administer the collection and distribution of the Zakat funds.
Those who may be enticed to Islam as well as new converts who need financial support.
Those Muslim slaves who may have their freedom purchased.
Those who are fighting in the Cause of Allah, e.g., the Mujahideen.
Muslim travelers who need assistance while on a journey.


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Those who are fighting in the Cause of Allah, e.g., the Mujahideen


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According to the 5 pillars of ISLAM the holiest of holy commandments. Every single muslim in the world whether in america, europe, russia, Antartica, should be doing all they can to help Al Quieda.

Sounds to me like anyone who believes in teh 5 pillars of islam (uhh all muslims) pretty much HAS to support the terrorists.

I'd love to hear some opinions on this.

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More quips and tidbits from the worlds most peaceful and loving religion

www.submission.org:



(1)Muslim women have to wear the veil.
(2) Islam encourages wife beating.
(3) The woman inherits only half what a man can inherit.
(4)The woman's testimony is equal only to half of the man's testimony.
(5)Muslim woman cannot have jobs outside their homes.
(6)Polygamy is strongly recommended.
(7)Men status is higher than that of the women. (Goes into the Eve problem and Christians)
(8) Muslim Women cannot have education.
(9)Women cannot share in the political life in their communities.
(10)Women cannot pray, fast, do Hajj or Ummrah during menstruation.
(11)Women are stoned to death for Adultery.
(12)Muslim women cannot marry Jewish or Christian men.
(13)Muslim women do not have the right to divorce their husbands.
(14)Compensation for the murder of a woman is half the going rate for men.
(15)For a woman to prove rape, four adult males of "impeccable" character must witness the incident.
(16)The legal age for girls to marry tends to be very young.
(17)Female circumcision, also called female genital mutilation.
(18) Muslim women are not allowed to drive.
(19) Typically, fathers win custody of boys over the age of six and girls after the onset of puberty.
(20) Women must be segregated form men in public, work and places of worship.
(21) "honor killings" of women: Murders by husbands or male relatives of women suspected of disobedience, usually a sexual indiscretion or marriage against the family's wishes.
(22) "Morality Police" keeps control on the behaviour of women.
(23) Women cannot travel freely except in the company of a male relative, "mahram

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govman did you even look what you cited. These points come from a link titled Misconeptions about women in islam.
http://www.submission.org/women/mis.html

so all these little points you just copy'd and pasted are actually proven wrong by the website you cite as a source.

Good Job,
Melch

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Wow, govman, honestly, this is a pretty ridiculous 'mistake.' Talk about an extreme example of confirmation bias, huh? I take it that you now find this post to be just as strong an argument AGAINST your original point as you must have considered it 'for' when you thought this was valid.

[John Kilduff]

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If modern Christians don't follow the horrible atrocities in the OT, how can you use the Koran as any evidence of anything at all?

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But Christians aren't supposed to follow the Old Testament, Christians are supposed to follow the teachings and example of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ (as described in the New Testament).

Christians are supposed to follow and try to emulate Jesus. Muslims generally consider Mohammed a fine and emulable example. Christians are supposed to follow the recorded words of Jesus. Muslims are supposed to follow the instructions of Allah as transcribed by Mohammed in the Koran.

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I'm really saddened when I read some of the threads about islam on 2+2.

When I think about Islam, I have rather positive feelings. I hear the sound of the call to prayer. After a while, you get used to it, and it becomes like the sound of bells from a church. I smell the sweet scent of spices in the souk. I see the beautiful buildings (e.g. mosques) that they built.

Most of my muslim friends are very generous and loyal. They will take care of their family/parents, living with them when needed. A friend in need will always be helped out.


I think before hating on muslims, americans should try to understand what makes them resentful against America. A lot of it comes from America's support of alot of corrupt leaders (e.g. in Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia...), and America's support of all of Israel's actions (e.g. the bombing of Lebanon last year)

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If modern Christians don't follow the horrible atrocities in the OT, how can you use the Koran as any evidence of anything at all?

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But Christians aren't supposed to follow the Old Testament, Christians are supposed to follow the teachings and example of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ (as described in the New Testament).

Christians are supposed to follow and try to emulate Jesus. Muslims generally consider Mohammed a fine and emulable example. Christians are supposed to follow the recorded words of Jesus. Muslims are supposed to follow the instructions of Allah as transcribed by Mohammed in the Koran.

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Nope. OT=NT in terms of importance. No difference. Jesus did not come to change a jot or tittle.

Also, while Jesus has many great things to say, and on balance is certainly a positive figure, many of his teachings are abhorrent. And thats not even considering the fact that, as God, he is responsible for every atrocity and horrific take-home message in the OT.

[govman6767]

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muhammadanism website

There is some FUNNY STUFF ON THIS WEBSITE it's not meant to be funny but it's funny.

Here is some exerpts

[ QUOTE ]
Hollywood Is Scared
Hollywood loves to push the boundaries of social sensibilities. However, when it comes to the icons of Islam, Hollywood is fearful to produce a historically accurate movie of Muhammad’s life. Muhammad fought battles, beheaded hundreds of people, married many women — including a nine-year old girl when he was a 54 year old man, raided merchant caravans, flew during the night on a winged animal whose size was between a donkey and a horse to the temple mount in Jerusalem. If Jesus Christ had beheaded people, married many women or had robbed caravans, and flew around on a winged-donkey, Hollywood would have produced numerous films lampooning his life. However, Hollywood film directors and actors are afraid they would have their throats slit, if they produced a realistic movie of Muhammad’s life.



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I'm sure Rob Zombie would have no problem making a movie about muahmmmud

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Will the West die peacefully?
European’s Western civilization has left its Christian heritage and is dying and being replaced by Islam. So, will this transition be peaceful or filled with conflict? Europeans have lost the will to live and flourish as a moral and religious people. For Islam to become the dominate religion of Europe, Muslims have little more to do other than to continue to value their families and have children. Already, many of Europe’s leaders submit to Islam, blaming the Europeans themselves for the Muslim demonstrations and riots. Mentally, it is as if they have already accepted the status of dhimmitude.

A civilization dies when it diminishes the value of children. Many nations in the Western world have legalized abortion, developed birth control pills, and affirmed the homosexual lifestyle. Societies succumb when they demean married life, postpone marriage for as long as possible, engage in sexually promiscuous behavior, tolerate the drug culture, and value self-gratifying hedonism more than moral virtue. Biologically, Europe is dying! 11 Between North America (40+ million in the USA) and Europe, more than 100 million babies have been aborted. The numbers will increased due to the popularity of the French abortifacient pill Mifepristone (RU486). One article states there are More Abortions Than Births in Russia. Abortive societies loathe their own existence, valuing the death of their offspring more than life and the future. So, it is rather pointless for Muslims to engage in an unnecessary conflict, while the West is busy destroying itself.

Westerners are proud of their democracy, liberalism, scientific and technical advancements. In their pride, they assume that Muslim immigrants will adopt their Western values. However, many Muslims are appalled by Western moral standards, and they feel they should avoid the popular culture to preserve their families. Because they view the West as morally decadent, they return to Islam for spiritual, moral, social, and political guidance. Islam is their Complete Way of Life. Such was the case with Sayid Qutb, a key intellectual figure associated with the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, who became radicalized after visiting the West. On the other hand, Western TV programs show frenzied Muslim mobs rampaging through the streets and burning down buildings. So, the tension between Islam and the West continues to grow.



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Yes practicing safe sex, not spreading disease, having children you can afford to take care of, feeding, clothing them are all things that will destroy THE WEST.

Islam has more kids that live in misery but someday those kids will rule the U.S. ... Is that what this guy is saying ?

<font color="black"> Work with me on the next one cause it's big </font>

[ QUOTE ]
One of the five pillars of Islam is the requirement that every Muslims contribute to the Islamic charity (alms) tax or Zakat. According to the Qur'an, the Zakat funds must be used for the following purposes.

The Fuqara poor. They are the poor who do not beg for support.
The Masakin. They are the poor who beg for support.
Those who administer the collection and distribution of the Zakat funds.
Those who may be enticed to Islam as well as new converts who need financial support.
Those Muslim slaves who may have their freedom purchased.
Those who are fighting in the Cause of Allah, e.g., the Mujahideen.
Muslim travelers who need assistance while on a journey.


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Those who are fighting in the Cause of Allah, e.g., the Mujahideen


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According to the 5 pillars of ISLAM the holiest of holy commandments. Every single muslim in the world whether in america, europe, russia, Antartica, should be doing all they can to help Al Quieda.

Sounds to me like anyone who believes in teh 5 pillars of islam (uhh all muslims) pretty much HAS to support the terrorists.

I'd love to hear some opinions on this.

[/ QUOTE ]

More quips and tidbits from the worlds most peaceful and loving religion

www.submission.org:



(1)Muslim women have to wear the veil.
(2) Islam encourages wife beating.
(3) The woman inherits only half what a man can inherit.
(4)The woman's testimony is equal only to half of the man's testimony.
(5)Muslim woman cannot have jobs outside their homes.
(6)Polygamy is strongly recommended.
(7)Men status is higher than that of the women. (Goes into the Eve problem and Christians)
(8) Muslim Women cannot have education.
(9)Women cannot share in the political life in their communities.
(10)Women cannot pray, fast, do Hajj or Ummrah during menstruation.
(11)Women are stoned to death for Adultery.
(12)Muslim women cannot marry Jewish or Christian men.
(13)Muslim women do not have the right to divorce their husbands.
(14)Compensation for the murder of a woman is half the going rate for men.
(15)For a woman to prove rape, four adult males of "impeccable" character must witness the incident.
(16)The legal age for girls to marry tends to be very young.
(17)Female circumcision, also called female genital mutilation.
(18) Muslim women are not allowed to drive.
(19) Typically, fathers win custody of boys over the age of six and girls after the onset of puberty.
(20) Women must be segregated form men in public, work and places of worship.
(21) "honor killings" of women: Murders by husbands or male relatives of women suspected of disobedience, usually a sexual indiscretion or marriage against the family's wishes.
(22) "Morality Police" keeps control on the behaviour of women.
(23) Women cannot travel freely except in the company of a male relative, "mahram

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govman did you even look what you cited. These points come from a link titled Misconeptions about women in islam.
http://www.submission.org/women/mis.html

so all these little points you just copy'd and pasted are actually proven wrong by the website you cite as a source.

Good Job,
Melch

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Wow, govman, honestly, this is a pretty ridiculous 'mistake.' Talk about an extreme example of confirmation bias, huh? I take it that you now find this post to be just as strong an argument AGAINST your original point as you must have considered it 'for' when you thought this was valid.

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It's not a mistake at all READ the misconceptions on the website. It'a all propoganda.

The one says well " All cultures beat their wives so it's not just Islam.

The guy who trashed me here prob never actually read the website and just want's to disprove anything I say cause he's middle eastern or just hates america.

[govman6767]

Also for the twit who's saying I made a mistake in posting this TRY READING THE OP

There is some FUNNY STUFF ON THIS WEBSITE it's not meant to be funny but it's funny.

Here is some exerpts

[govman6767]

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I'm really saddened when I read some of the threads about islam on 2+2.

When I think about Islam, I have rather positive feelings. I hear the sound of the call to prayer. After a while, you get used to it, and it becomes like the sound of bells from a church. I smell the sweet scent of spices in the souk. I see the beautiful buildings (e.g. mosques) that they built.

Most of my muslim friends are very generous and loyal And would even blow themselves up for me. . They will take care of their family/parents A Tony Soprano Take care of his family ?? , living with them when needed. A friend in need will always be helped out.


I think before hating on muslims, americans should try to understand what makes them resentful against America. OR What makes Americans REsentful of them it's a freaking two way street bub A lot of it comes from America's support of alot of corrupt leaders (e.g. in Pakistan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia...), and America's support of all of Israel's actions I certanly do support Israel and their fight against suicide bombers. (e.g. the bombing of Lebanon last year)

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[John Kilduff]

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If modern Christians don't follow the horrible atrocities in the OT, how can you use the Koran as any evidence of anything at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

But Christians aren't supposed to follow the Old Testament, Christians are supposed to follow the teachings and example of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ (as described in the New Testament).

Christians are supposed to follow and try to emulate Jesus. Muslims generally consider Mohammed a fine and emulable example. Christians are supposed to follow the recorded words of Jesus. Muslims are supposed to follow the instructions of Allah as transcribed by Mohammed in the Koran.

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Nope. OT=NT in terms of importance. No difference. Jesus did not come to change a jot or tittle.

Also, while Jesus has many great things to say, and on balance is certainly a positive figure, many of his teachings are abhorrent. And thats not even considering the fact that, as God, he is responsible for every atrocity and horrific take-home message in the OT.

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It is late, so perhaps this web page can explain part of it better than I:

Fargo Baptist

There are essentially only two commandments, according to Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

Also, Jesus's coming and sacrifice forever changed the relationship of man and God.

The Old Testament is basically Judaism. The New Testament, and specifically the teachings of Jesus and the example and sacrifice of Jesus, is basically Christianity.

If you wish to understand Christianity, you will want to read the Gospels of Mark and Matthew using a red-letter Bible (red-letter editions have the words of Jesus highlighted in red). If you pay close attention to what Jesus is saying, and then think about what he did for us all through his sacrifice, and the ultimate love he thereby gave to us, you will probably come to understand the true meaning of Christianity. And then the joy of God will light up your heart, and your soul will experience a brand new kind of clarity and peace. I pray now that you will read the words of Jesus directly, and take them into your heart.

Thanks for reading, and God bless.