very tough spot with flopped set

[Lethe]

[ QUOTE ]
Cap the flop and lead a safe turn, re-eval if raised.

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[chillrob]

I play in the same games as Kit, and while I do normally play even the smallest pocket pairs in EP, I have been considering dumping them lately. The 10/20 AC games are pretty aggressive, at least half usually have a raise preflop, and it is tough to capitalize when you do hit from OOP.

[KitCloudkicker]

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it is tough to capitalize when you do hit from OOP.

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i disagree.

if there are many folks between you and the PFR, lead to trap.

if the PFR is right after you , CR to trap

pretty simple.

[chillrob]

Well, maybe I should have said it is tough for _me_ to capitalize when I hit from OOP.

Honestly though, I rarely feel comfortable enough with bottom set in a multiway pot that I want to trap the field for two bets and bloat the pot. There are almost always straight and flush draws possible, and I would rather not take any chances, especially when the pot is already large. Maybe I am playing too scared though?

[One Outer]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, maybe I should have said it is tough for _me_ to capitalize when I hit from OOP.

Honestly though, I rarely feel comfortable enough with bottom set in a multiway pot that I want to trap the field for two bets and bloat the pot. There are almost always straight and flush draws possible, and I would rather not take any chances, especially when the pot is already large. Maybe I am playing too scared though?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree that if you are concerned about draws to the point where you don't want to make the pot huge when you have a set, then yeah, you're playing scared.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Passive and/or prone to large multi-way pots for only 1-2 bets pre-flop. Additionally its a horrible thing to do unless you play very well postflop, have a great image pre-flop, and you can maximize the rare times that you do indeed hit. I'd think its safe to say I wouldn't recommend a lot of the posters in this forum do it, but some would be foolish if they didn't exploit small edges such as limping w/33 UTG.

[/ QUOTE ]Are you kidding? Small pocket pairs are profitable, and easy to play post-flop. Image means nothing because nobody is paying attention.

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I think you need to re-read my post, you only read what you wanted to see. Small pocket pairs are of course profitable if you play well post flop, but if your a bad player who lips with 33 and when it becomes a multiway pot then you check-call on a 5 way flop of 8 2 J because its ragged then its bound to be a losing play in the long run (I think a lot of readers of this forum aren't good players yet but are on their way). Image also makes a difference because if your opponents are just slightly observant they will call instead of raise with part of their range, and for others they will limp in more loosely because they think to themselves "if the guy who always is raising thinks its ok to limp, then the waters must be safe".

[chillrob]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, maybe I should have said it is tough for _me_ to capitalize when I hit from OOP.

Honestly though, I rarely feel comfortable enough with bottom set in a multiway pot that I want to trap the field for two bets and bloat the pot. There are almost always straight and flush draws possible, and I would rather not take any chances, especially when the pot is already large. Maybe I am playing too scared though?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree that if you are concerned about draws to the point where you don't want to make the pot huge when you have a set, then yeah, you're playing scared.

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I am not afraid to put money in with a low set, but I would usually be somewhat inclined to play it in the opposite way suggested by Kit; either to bet into the PFR hoping to get raised, or to c/r a late position PFR. Either way I would hoping to face the field with calling two bets cold rather than trapping them for a beat each two different times.

[DeuceKicker]

OK I re-read it. Unfortunately it was worse the second time around. You said, "It's a horrible thing to do unless you play very well postflop," and "have a great image pre-flop."

All you need to do is play adequately post-flop and you'll do fine with baby pairs. Hell, while something like 77 is slightly more profitable than 33, the smaller pair is easier to play because you'll almost never be faced with a tough decision caused by flopping top or second pair.

[ QUOTE ]
but if your a bad player who lips with 33 and when it becomes a multiway pot then you check-call on a 5 way flop of 8 2 J because its ragged then its bound to be a losing play in the long run

[/ QUOTE ]Of course this is a losing play, but I'd bet that 99% of the Small Stakes posters aren't chasing two-outers with 33. Give them more credit than that.

[ QUOTE ]
if your opponents are just slightly observant they will call instead of raise with part of their range, and for others they will limp in more loosely because they think to themselves "if the guy who always is raising thinks its ok to limp, then the waters must be safe".

[/ QUOTE ]I didn't understand your first example. Why would they not raise, and how does it hurt you?

Regardless, UTG you have three types of hands: Junk; multi-way hands; Heads-up hands.

If I'm playing a multi-way hand like 33, I want people to limp behind me. I'm happy if they limp with hands they were going to raise, because it decreases the chance that their raise knocks out some of my customers behind them. And if they limp a hand they were going to fold, I don't care. The more the merrier, because I want a bunch of people in there paying me off when my hand hits.

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
I am not afraid to put money in with a low set, but I would usually be somewhat inclined to play it in the opposite way suggested by Kit; either to bet into the PFR hoping to get raised, or to c/r a late position PFR. Either way I would hoping to face the field with calling two bets cold rather than trapping them for a beat each two different times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kit has the righto f it; tricking your opponents into calling one so they call another one is better for you then facing them with two cold if there's any chance they will fold (because if they will fold, it was probably a longshot that should fold given your hand).

[Blzdwrath]

I think deuce is right in the above post. When OOP with multiway hands its best to go for overcalls unless you are damn sure the person to act after you is going to bet. Then a c/r might be profitable.