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#21
10-15-2007, 04:22 AM
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Re: Boring KK Hand: $1/$2
[ QUOTE ]
Its not only making him have thinner odds but also creating a bigger pot for the next couple rounds so you can get more off him [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, it creates a bigger pot, but it's not like it's a huge strain to get stacks in if I bet $14. I can even do it without overbetting. 
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#22
10-15-2007, 04:26 AM
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Re: Boring KK Hand: $1/$2
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] better odds to draws [/ QUOTE ] I guess I just don't see the difference between giving them 2.6:1 vs 2.4:1 [/ QUOTE ] Pretty much my problem is the gain of being able to reopen the betting in this situation really doesn't feel that huge. Mainly because, even if he likes messing with you, I doubt he's going to call the flop after a short stack pushes you AND THEN stack off light when you reraise the flop. And if he was then you'd probably get it in on the turn or river anyways if you just bet $20 on the flop. In situations like this, I feel a bet that allows me to reopen needs to be closer to my standard bet. I don't feel $14 is close enough, but I feel about $16 is. Anyways this type of situation comes up so rarely it's really not that important to discuss.
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#25
10-15-2007, 04:29 AM
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Re: Boring KK Hand: $1/$2
[ QUOTE ]
In situations like this, I feel a bet that allows me to reopen needs to be closer to my standard bet. [/ QUOTE ] I tend to mix up my flop bet sizing a lot, and I recommend you do the same. [ QUOTE ] Anyways this situation comes up so rarely it's really not that important to discuss. [/ QUOTE ] Strongly Disagree. Both about the rarity and the importance. To those that want to bet > $14, how do you feel about extracting value in a dry side pot?
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#26
10-15-2007, 04:31 AM
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Re: Boring KK Hand: $1/$2
Jim,
What hands do you think he's coldcalling 2 bets on the flop (assuming you bet $14), then paying off a 3bet?
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#27
10-15-2007, 04:33 AM
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Re: Boring KK Hand: $1/$2
[ QUOTE ]
Jim, What hands do you think he's coldcalling 2 bets on the flop (assuming you bet $14), then paying off a 3bet? [/ QUOTE ] Seeing as how he has a vendetta against Jim, I can see him calling the shorty's shove with any TP or any decent draw and then lick his lips when Jim 3-bets.
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#28
10-15-2007, 04:33 AM
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Re: Boring KK Hand: $1/$2
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] better odds to draws [/ QUOTE ] I guess I just don't see the difference between giving them 2.6:1 vs 2.4:1 [/ QUOTE ] This is not correct. Counting the correct pot odds would result in villain for example needing an extra $24 in implied odds with a 5-outer to call profitably. Now if a smaller bet is more likely to induce a bluff from a lagtard then obv the smaller bet might be better, but saying there's no difference between betting 18 and 14 is silly Edit: Ok, so this was an answer to Pat, I agree there's not much difference between 16 and 14...
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#29
10-15-2007, 04:37 AM
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Re: Boring KK Hand: $1/$2
[ QUOTE ]
saying there's no difference between betting 16 and 14 is silly [/ QUOTE ] Pretty sure the difference is minuscule, particularly since shorty is getting his money in a large percentage of the time. If he wants to try and play his gutshot OOP, power to him.
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#30
10-15-2007, 04:39 AM
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Re: Boring KK Hand: $1/$2
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Jim, What hands do you think he's coldcalling 2 bets on the flop (assuming you bet $14), then paying off a 3bet? [/ QUOTE ] Seeing as how he has a vendetta against Jim, I can see him calling the shorty's shove with any TP or any decent draw and then lick his lips when Jim 3-bets. [/ QUOTE ] This is kinda where my head was. Shorty can be moving with any draw, any pair, hell, almost ATC that have some semblance of a chance to win, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him in there with some weak made hands, and when he does have a J, particularly KJ+, I don't really see him getting away.
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