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  #1  
Old 07-28-2006, 12:01 PM
Gregatron Gregatron is offline
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Default Learn from my mistakes part 2

This was an idea aj did about a couple of weeks ago. I thought this was a great idea. Everyone posted hands they screwed up, and there were a LOT of great screw ups, many of this interesting and illuminating.

However, there was one problem. It seemed everyone just wanted to post their own hands, and not have as much discussion about the nature of other people's mistakes.

So, I hope aj doesn't mind (and if he does [censored] him [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]), but I'm taking the liberty of recreating this thread with some important adjustments.

The initial rules of this thread will be the same as aj's (this is copied from his original post):

[ QUOTE ]

Requirements for posting hands in this thread:

1. Hero knows he played the hand poorly and explains why.
2. HERO MUST LOSE AT LEAST <font color="red">50bb's. </font>
3. Post only converted hands and remember to post results.

4. Please take results out of white.


[/ QUOTE ]

In the interest of fostering meaningful discussion I am adding two more rules.

5. Before you post one hand you must comment meaningfully on the mistakes of another player. You must say what you think they did wrong AND why you think this. Also, you must say what you think Hero SHOULD have done.
6. If you want to post more than one hand, you have to comment on more than one hand. E.g. If you post two hands in this thread, you should have commented on at least two other hands.
7. You may only post one hand at a time in a single post.


The rest of aj's rules stand:

[ QUOTE ]

Do not post bad beats. No set over set. No AA vs set on a safe board. No getting sucked out on. Sometimes losing a big pot is inevitable. Only post hands where you fundamentally played the hand poorly. No results orientated thinking allowed.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are free to post your own thoughts on the hand, but the point of this is to allow others to critique your mistakes.

Okay, I will start. (I will comment on a hand later to make up for my immidiate deficit.) I played this last night and it is haunting me.

Villian here seemed to me to be somewhat selective, but not good. I had just stolen his UTG raise the very last hand with the excact same two cards (yes, I was dealt red AK twice in a row -- RIGGED!). His stats were something like 30/10/0.5 over not enough hands. I have this suspision that he is thinking I'm trying to bully him around. Given that, you can see how dumb this play is.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Greg is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Greg raises to $1</font>, BB calls.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($2, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Greg bets $1.75</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $3.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Greg raises all-in $27.45</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB thinks for a while and the calls all-in $16.7</font>.
Uncalled bets: $7.25 returned to Greg.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($49.65, 1 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $42.4, Sidepot 1: $7.25)


River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($49.65, 1 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $42.4, Sidepot 1: $7.25)


Results:
Final pot: $49.65

Villian had A4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
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  #2  
Old 07-28-2006, 12:05 PM
kitaristi0 kitaristi0 is offline
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Default Re: Learn from my mistakes part 2

Your hand is not a mistake, it's super standard.
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  #3  
Old 07-28-2006, 12:13 PM
orange orange is offline
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Default Re: Learn from my mistakes part 2

although, calling the miniraise is fine too.
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  #4  
Old 07-28-2006, 12:13 PM
BukNaked36 BukNaked36 is offline
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Default Re: Learn from my mistakes part 2

I used to always think of pushing a flush draw with overs as an "advanced" move. I'm rebuilding my roll from the ground up and see it at NL10 all the time with the same result as this hand.

I now look to push overpairs or TPTK on a 2 flush flop to try to stack villians who are calling down these flop flush draw pushes with middle pair.
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  #5  
Old 07-28-2006, 12:14 PM
Grunch Grunch is offline
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Default Re: Learn from my mistakes part 2

[ QUOTE ]
Your hand is not a mistake, it's super standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno man. If the opponent has trips we're 35% with zero FE. If we hit he's going to have a hard time letting go.
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  #6  
Old 07-28-2006, 12:20 PM
BukNaked36 BukNaked36 is offline
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Default Re: Learn from my mistakes part 2

Technically was this a +EV push?

9 heart + 3 kings = 12 outs ~ 48% to hit

Doesn't money in the pot make this +EV?
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  #7  
Old 07-28-2006, 12:22 PM
Gregatron Gregatron is offline
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Default Re: Learn from my mistakes part 2

[ QUOTE ]
Your hand is not a mistake, it's super standard.

[/ QUOTE ]
Given my read?

EDIT: I do appreciate teh comment. I'm obviously still learning. Given that I could have just called though, I felt honestly that this was a pretty big error.

Though given the dabate already, I think this was obviously NOT the best hand to start with. I honestly did feel trongly that I [censored] this one up good (and those that know me know I don't come looking for pats on the head and reassurance that "you played this fine." I'm not a special little snowflake).
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  #8  
Old 07-28-2006, 12:26 PM
Grunch Grunch is offline
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Default Re: Learn from my mistakes part 2

Not saying the push was -EV. I'm just saying that it may not be optimal.
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  #9  
Old 07-28-2006, 12:27 PM
tubasteve tubasteve is offline
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Default Re: Learn from my mistakes part 2

Grega: I would play it the same. Now do you think you should just call flop?


Here's mine, played terribly imo:

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
tuba: $110.85
UTG+1: $96
MP1: $82
MP2: $146.70
MP3: $76.80
CO: $87.55
Button: $128.85
SB: $47.05
BB: $99

Pre-flop: (9 players) tuba is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">tuba raises to $4</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, 6 folds.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($9.5, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">tuba bets $3</font>, MP1 calls.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($15.5, 2 players)
tuba checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 bets $6</font>, tuba calls.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($27.5, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">tuba bets $12</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 raises to $37</font>, tuba calls.

Results:
Final pot: $101.5

I weak led the flop because it's been getting raised when I do that, plus I haven't shown down anything after c-betting...I should've bet at least $5 on the flop even if I was trying that line. On turn I thought the Q really sucked because AQ was definitely in this guy's range, but so were mid pocket pairs and I didn't wanna blow him off of those. On river, I didn't want it to get checked through but I wasn't sure if betting for value was worth it so I just bet small to kind of block bet, but he raised so small I talked myself into a call. Thoughts?
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  #10  
Old 07-28-2006, 12:29 PM
Hume Hume is offline
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Default Re: Learn from my mistakes part 2

[ QUOTE ]
Technically was this a +EV push?

9 heart + 3 kings = 12 outs ~ 48% to hit

Doesn't money in the pot make this +EV?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really 48%, but it's still very slightly +EV with the money already in the pot.

Board: 4h 3h 3c
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 43.1313 % 42.42% 00.71% { AhKh }
Hand 2: 56.8687 % 56.16% 00.71% { As4s }
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