KQ in BB against Loose Deceiver

[Luhroy]

Villain is loose, passive in general with short bursts of aggression, and extremely deceitful. For instance, he’ll raise preflop with a range of hands from A4 to AA, or limp late with 86o after everyone folds to him, but limp early with 88. He’ll also do things like slowplay (check and call) a set of Queens on the flop, smooth call a turn check-raise after he fills up, then come out betting on the river.

Sportsbook.com 3-6 8 handed

Hero is bb with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

EPs1-3 limp, 2 folds to Villain who limps, sb calls, Hero checks

Flop (6-way, 6 sb)

Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

sb checks, Hero bets, EP1-2 fold, EP3 calls, Villain calls, sb folds

Turn (4.5 BB)

K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Hero checks, EP3 bets, Villain calls, Hero raises, EP3 calls, Villain raises, Hero calls, EP3 calls

River (14.5 BB)

9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero checks, EP3 checks, Villain bets, Hero raises, EP3 calls, Villain raises, Hero calls, EP3 over-calls

What the hell is going on here?

[KitCloudkicker]

why are you check raising this turn and why did you check raise this river?

just wondering what your thought process was

[HoneyBadger]

bet/call turn, bet river if not raised, else c/c... standard. Two check raises... me no like either one of them.

Although the turn is so-so, but given the action, the river c/r is ridiculous...

[Luhroy]

First of all, thanks for your time. Secondly, to answer your questions, I check-raised the turn to protect my hand in a large pot and because I felt the three flush made it vulnerable. The river was pure donkey self destructive behavior--no thought process whatsoever. I let my emotions (anger in this case) get the best of me. Criticize forth!

[James.]

bet the turn.

it's horrible going for a c'r on that board. alot of weak hands that will call check. even worse they get to see the river for free because the board is SCARY.

this is important. this scary board will induce submission due to fear by all of the hands you beat, and decrease the equity of your hands against his range. when your money goes in on the c/r, you are actually raising a stronger portion of hands from your opponent's range because it takes a better hand to bet a turn card so scary multiway.

just lead the turn. if raised play some poker(make good decisions based on pot odds, how your opponents play, and how the action unfolds).

[Luhroy]

Why bet and call river, and river if not raised? Yes. River is ridiculous. eeegh!awh

[Luhroy]

[ QUOTE ]
it's horrible going for a c'r on that board. alot of weak hands that will call check. even worse they get to see the river for free because the board is SCARY.

this is important. this scary board will induce submission due to fear by all of the hands you beat, and decrease the equity of your hands against his range. when your money goes in on the c/r, you are actually raising a stronger portion of hands from your opponent's range because it takes a better hand to bet a turn card so scary multiway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your time. This rings true but is very difficult for me to understand.

[mikeca]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it's horrible going for a c'r on that board. alot of weak hands that will call check.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your time. This rings true but is very difficult for me to understand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think what James means is the K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] on the turn is a scary card. It could complete flush or straight draws, but it is not just scary to you. It is scary to anyone who has a weaker hand or a draw that it did not complete. It is scary to all the hands that you currently beat that are still on draws. The only people it does not scare are the people that just completed their hand and now have a hand that beats you.

Just because the K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] could have completed flush or straight draws doesn't mean that it did. Either one or more person made a straight/flush on the turn or they didn't. When you check, if no one made a straight/flush, there is a good chance it will check around and you will have given a free card to all the draws you currently have beat. If someone does bet, chances are they have a flush or straight, so you are check raising when you are behind and giving a free card when you are ahead.

If you just bet, and you are still ahead because the turn did not complete a straight/flush for anyone, most people with draws will call, and you will have made them pay to draw. If someone does have the straight/flush, they will probably raise the turn, and you will want to call.

Going for the check raise, you probably only get money in the pot when you are behind. Going for the bet, you get money in the pot when you are ahead too.

[RossSi]

Good post mikeca - you explained this well

[gobbledygeek]

* grunch *

I play most streets differently.

Preflop I raise although I'm thinking this is close (I'd check KJo). I'm guessing that against 5 players that I have a slight equity edge and that's good enough for me, even if I'm OOP. Besides, raising is fun!

Flop top pair and good kicker, pretty sure this is an easy bet.

On the turn I don't get tricky. While this makes a good two pair hand for me it has also completed some straight and flush draws. I simply lead and see what kind of action develops and take it from there; depending on who I'm up against, action, etc. I might 3bet a raise but against a typical 2/4 live table opponent I'm probably just calling down unless I make my boat.

The river is really bad in my opinion and I'm a fifth level master spewer. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] From your description of villain it sounds like he slowplays big hands until he gets lots of action where he then goes to town, and that's exactly what he did on the turn by calling/3betting. I simply call the river bet knowing that I'll probably be good slightly more than 15.5:1.

GcluelessnoobG