Jeffage stud article

[jfk]

With the benefit of hindsight, can you make a case for betting the river?

To my unsophisticated way of thinking there's no benefit to betting the river but would be very interested to hear if you've since come to a different conclusion about finding value here?

Also, what hand do you think he put you on?

Lastly, for those of us who're irregular, non-expert stud players what are some of the things this player does that has you hold him in such high regard. You made gave a general description, but expanding on your assessment would be interesting (at least to me). Is this a player with whom you have an extensive history or are there obvious things which can be seen quickly in a player like this.

The series has been very enjoyable. I look forward to a rejuvenation of stud as a leading game.

[SA125]

IMO, hoping to not sound like a total butt munch, I think Jeff's article's are the best thing that's been added to the magazine in a while. You may have questions or disagree, but the man understands the game better than most here.

I have to admit I'm not sure how much it impacts guys who don't play stud. For guys like myself who play it, I believe his articles are at the top of the list of what to look for on the first of the month.

[Jeffage]

Hey jfk,

Thanks for the post.

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With the benefit of hindsight, can you make a case for betting the river?

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No, particularly against this player. The reason is that, based on what I believe to be a reasonable hand range for him, a river bet can't show a profit in the long run. Aces up is very possible, as is a spade draw which will only raise if completed. If he was the type to call with two small pair that he made accidentally on the end, then the bet would have some thin value. But I think due to the coordinated nature of my board, he would have to put me on a probable straight when I still bet the river since he thinks I prob fear he has aces up or a big draw so "why bet?" At the very least, he will put me on something like kings up since I called his fifth street bet when he paired threes - he probably doesn't think I'd bet the river with that though, but I'm sure he thinks it's possible. Plus, if I do bet the river and he "reads" me for being weak somehow, there is always the remote possibility of being bluff raised off my hand. Not saying this is likely, but something to consider. All in all, I think there is: no chance he folds a better hand to my river bet, a great chance of being raised and little chance (due to his hand range in how the hand played out and his ability to read hands) that I'll be called by a worse hand on the river.

[ QUOTE ]


Lastly, for those of us who're irregular, non-expert stud players what are some of the things this player does that has you hold him in such high regard. You made gave a general description, but expanding on your assessment would be interesting (at least to me). Is this a player with whom you have an extensive history or are there obvious things which can be seen quickly in a player like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've played with him enough to know the he is very, very good. I don't want to give too many details, but basically: he reads hands extremely well; he doesn't play predictably and can adapt and rapidly switch gears within a hand; he is fearless and capable of bold plays; he doesn't tilt (this may sound like no big deal, but in this game, going off for a rack in one down after suffering a bad beat is quite common and the game can often make someone ponder lying in traffic). Other than that, my description holds and I'd prefer not going into too much detail. I have a lot of respect for him as a player.

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The series has been very enjoyable. I look forward to a rejuvenation of stud as a leading game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks man - anything I can do to promote the game makes me happy so I hope you're right. I have seen some younger players in the 75 game that have been occasionally migrating over to hold em. Unfortunately, I don't see many people under 40 in stud games like 20-40 or 40-80 compared to comparable hold em games. But who knows what the future holds.

Jeff

[Jeffage]

[ QUOTE ]
hoping to not sound like a total butt munch

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Never my friend! Thanks for the kind words as always.

Jeff

[Berge20]

Good article as always

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
Good article as always

[/ QUOTE ]

Seconded. Stud hi is my worst (common) poker variant. Reading the thought processes of specific hands on every street has been a great help.

[southerndog]

Nice article Jeff..

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
No, particularly against this player. The reason is that, based on what I believe to be a reasonable hand range for him, a river bet can't show a profit in the long run.

Plus, if I do bet the river and he "reads" me for being weak somehow, there is always the remote possibility of being bluff raised off my hand. Not saying this is likely, but something to consider. All in all, I think there is: no chance he folds a better hand to my river bet, a great chance of being raised and little chance (due to his hand range in how the hand played out and his ability to read hands) that I'll be called by a worse hand on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm no stud expert, but that generally was what I first thought in reading the hand. My primary instinct would be to check behind, because what could he call with here that I could beat? A river bet that can only lose money is not a bet to make.

I don't really think you can get bluffed off of this hand, can you? If you're going to bet out, you're pretty much forced to grit your teeth and call the raise, aren't you?

One argument FOR betting depends on what you'd do with trips or a straight in this same situation. If you'd check down and show even those hands on the river, the argument for checking behind becomes stronger.

To a lesser extent, I think that reasoning applies to raising on 5th street in this hand.

Anyway, good article, Jeff

[Sweet]

Wooooooooooow,

I am not Earth's best stud player by any means, but I hated 5th street. I suppose that since so many have complemented, I am likely in error. I will make my 5th street comments below, and thanks in advance for any words that will help set me straight... I guess I have a lot to learn about stud.

5th: I think a fold is in order here. Your check on 4th has kept the pot small. How many bets are you going to throw away against aces up? Are you going to pay 3 more big bets into this tiny pot drawing nearly dead? You are an underdog to all of his possible holdings at this point (right?). Although you are getting a good enough price against some of them, the threat of aces up and the fact that you really have no clue what you're up against seems to favor folding at this point.