Why I Despise Bush's Presidency.....Rant...

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Hello?? What about stem cell research? I can't believe anyone would actually be against this.

[Kaj]

According to Col Hughes, Jay Garner's top liaison with senior Iraqi military leaders, they could have gotten over 100,000 almost immediately. It would hardly be difficult -- Iraqi soldiers needed paychecks, do you think they wanted to be thrown to the streets with no job and no prospects after being part of a respected military? How do you think a half million American soldiers would feel if an occupying force moved in to America, supposedly to liberate them, and then barred them from serving in a security capacity, the only thing they are really trained to do. And then these soldiers watch security breakdown all around them and their beloved country turn into a violent shithole while the occupiers stand by and let it happen. They'd probably get the idea that the occupiers weren't here to liberate and rebuild but to conquer and control. Hughes hit the nail on the head. The way we treated the Iraqi military sent a very clear message -- we are in charge now, it's our country to secure, not yours anymore. And then when security broke down, we made our intentions clear to the rest of the nation by securing only one piece of infrastructure: the oil ministry and oil fields, even while our soldiers stood idly by requesting to secure important Iraqi cultural buildings but were ordered to do nothing.

Please watch the movie. It is not a propaganda job but is basically those on the ground and in charge of the initial reconstruction telling with their own words how politics and administration appointees bungled this whole thing. Arrogance and incompetence with a healthy dose of corruption.

[owsley]

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All this bullcrap about Bush being selected and not elected makes my eyes roll. There were NOT enough 'hanging chads' to give algore Florida.

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While I do enjoy a good ol' fashion anti-Bush rant I do take acception to this sentence. If you ask anyone who is serious about the 2000 election being handed to Bush in florida I highly doubt any of their reasons they list will be about the hanging chad. If they do it will be somewhere near the bottom. One of the main problems with the Florida election was the mass disenfranchisement of black voters. Those voters would have swung the election, but they were silenced and the re-counts were tarnished.

I doubt anyone wants to re-hash this old topic. If you don't believe the problems of the 2000 election that is one thing. But I just want to make sure you're aware of the real reasons people are up in arms about that whole debacle.

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Not to mention the one Jewish suburb where Pat Buchanan got like 5,000 votes or something.

The whole thing was completely FUBAR in the truest sense of the phrase.

[vulturesrow]

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All this bullcrap about Bush being selected and not elected makes my eyes roll. There were NOT enough 'hanging chads' to give algore Florida.

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While I do enjoy a good ol' fashion anti-Bush rant I do take acception to this sentence. If you ask anyone who is serious about the 2000 election being handed to Bush in florida I highly doubt any of their reasons they list will be about the hanging chad. If they do it will be somewhere near the bottom. One of the main problems with the Florida election was the mass disenfranchisement of black voters. Those voters would have swung the election, but they were silenced and the re-counts were tarnished.

I doubt anyone wants to re-hash this old topic. If you don't believe the problems of the 2000 election that is one thing. But I just want to make sure you're aware of the real reasons people are up in arms about that whole debacle.

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For the love of God, iron please lock this thread before we go down this road for the umpteenth million time...

[AlexM]

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Hello?? What about stem cell research? I can't believe anyone would actually be against this.

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Who's against it? I know of no one that wants to make stem cell research illegal.

[JOHNY CA$H]

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I do think Bush is a VERY nice man with good intentions

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lol. Ignorance must be bliss.

[mrick]

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Mismanaged the Iraq occupation

[/ QUOTE ] Well, well, well! Isn't it funny and sad at the same time, how the conservatives and neo-conservatives who supported the invasion of Iraq now turn on their man? George W Bush delivered the invasion these folks were so gung-ho about and now that the inevitable mess is clear for all to see and can't be hidden under lies and misdirection, they whine "it's all Dubya's fault!"...

Well, I have news for you, Felix. That was a solid thumb-sucker of a post -- but the Prince of Darkness beat you to it, months ago...
Neocons turn on Bush for incompetence over Iraq war
Former hawks now say they wouldn't back Iraq war
Neo Culpa

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Failed to impose martial law in Iraq with orders to shoot-to-kill looters. Appointed that idiot General Garner to manage post war Iraq. Disbanding the Iraqi Army.

[/ QUOTE ]The looting took place because of the American invasion and how it was carried out. Shooting the looters would have stopped the looting of essentials and alienated even earlier the population. Yes : Disbanding the Army and the state institutions have been the root cause for the anarchy still prevailing in Iraq. That and ten years of stupid sanctions were enough to severely undermine the Iraqi state infrastructure -- as intelligence forwarned thw White House.

But, on this very forum, there were jubilant posters who were adamant that Iraq should be "purged" from all the "Ba'ath fascists". Hey, payback is a bitch...

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Failed to install a temporary constitution to influence Iraq to a more secular constitution. In sales this is called the puppy dog close. You give your customer a puppy and hope they fall in love with it.

[/ QUOTE ] In this context, it is called poppycock. Iraq was without any serious secular political body that would, possibly, support a secular constitution. Why? Because the American invasion had marginalised and destroyed the secular Ba'ath regime... My dear Felix, you CAN'T sell a puppy dog to dog haters. And you CAN'T sell a secular constitution to a Supreme Islamic Revolutionary Council. I thought the name would've been warning enough... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Failed to stop the Iranians ...[and] the Syrians ... from sending arms to insurgents. Failure to secure Iraqi ammo depots.

[/ QUOTE ]I have more news for you, Felix. The biggest source of weapons for the insurgents seems to be (and I hope you don't have heart problems) the American ammunition given to the Iraqi state! Yes sir, this is what happens when you are a fool and an idiot and you don't know your friends from your enemies -- the people who serve your interests, aside from all rhetoric, and the people who oppose your interests, aside from all rhetoric. Isn't is amazing how much better the Saddam Hussein regime (and a crapload of billions of dollars LESS spent!) seems in retrospect??.. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Like the proverbial fool, the American zealots in charge of the war placed their faith --and the fate of Iraq-- in the hands of known crooks, such as Ahmed Chalabi, of religious fanatics such as the ..Shia militants whom they put in charge of ..internal security (well, they were opponents of Saddam, weren't they?? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]), and of incompetents such as ..well pretty much everybody involved in this mess from Rummie on down to the brass -- leave the soldiers out.

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Failure to get Turkey's cooperation to deploy the 4th ID in Turkey to attack iraq from the North. Being too responsive to allegations of abuse.

[/ QUOTE ] Even if Bush has been too harsh with the poor war criminals, what's that got to dom with mismanaging the war? I have news for you, Felix : The war has been won! It's the peace that's at stake now -- and winning the peace means showing to the Iraqis that you are serious about installing a regime which is secular and fair. A regime which, for example, punishes abuse. Lead by example, WTF.

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Failure to kill Sadr.

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You don't get it, do you? THERE'S NOBODY ELSE TO GET SUPPORT FROM EXCEPT THE SHIAS. And the Shias would be instantly alienated if Sadr was killed.

But I have one piece of good news for you, Felix: The only true sign of hope in Iraq right now is that former insurgents, i.e. persons who have recently tortured, maimed and killed Americans (as well as Iraqis), are willing to talk with the American side! This is excellent news. Sheikhs ruling over Sunni militias are discussing with American commanders ways to keep the al Qaeda "nihilists" (as they call 'em) out of their areas. Or, better yet, snuff 'em out.

Have faith, Felix. One Ace is still in the deck. If you had been tracking the cards sharply enough, you'd know it too.

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[MidGe]

mrick,

well, as has been said many times before it all started with lies about why to start the war in Iraq. WMD, 9/11, etc., orly! Therein lies the rub.

[Felix_Nietzsche]

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Shooting the looters would have stopped the looting of essentials and alienated even earlier the population.

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You don't know what you are talking about...
The Arab culture and Arab history show that ruling with an iron fist works. And works quite well. Syria's 5% minority controls the other 95% of their population. But feel free to provide historical examples where shooting looters is not effective. In any culture....

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have more news for you, Felix. The biggest source of weapons for the insurgents seems to be the American ammunition given to the Iraqi state!

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<Sigh> I doubt you even know which end of a barrel the bullet leaves a gun. The Iraqi army uses Warsaw Pact ammunition, not NATO ammunition. The USA does NOT manufacture Warsaw pact ammo. Iraqi oil bought these weapons from their manufactorers (Warsaw Pact countries) During the war with Iran, it was the Saudis, Kuwaitis, and other Persian Gulf nations that 'loaned' massive amounts of money to allow Saddam to buy additional weapons....from the Soviets. During this war it was the USA provided intelligence and relaxed embargo restrictions against Iraq....which was the correct play to do against a possible Iranian takeover of Iraq.

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You don't get it, do you? THERE'S NOBODY ELSE TO GET SUPPORT FROM EXCEPT THE SHIAS. And the Shias would be instantly alienated if Sadr was killed.

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You assume that most Shias support Sadr...
Again you demstrate your ignorance. I would be surprised if Sadr had 10% support from the Shia population. But 10% armed with guns and a willingness to murder is enough to cow the other 90%.

Your post is a text book example that rabid Bush haters are incapable of criticizing Bush is a logical and reasoned manner. It takes a conservative Repub to show you how it is done...

[slickss]

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But feel free to provide historical examples where shooting looters is not effective. In any culture....

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I'll give you a piece of the non-American culture: Situations that force you to help and kill the same people are sticky, and should be avoided at all costs.

Team America, [censored] yeah.