Time to write off public education?

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Identify what is the difference between these two systems and you probably have your solution for how to make k-12 better.

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Are you suggesting regular keggers for elementary school kids?

[DVaut1]

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As we all know, the US public school system is, by and large, a disgrace.

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I think there are a lot of people who don't consider this prima facie true.

I'll grant many of this forum agree, but I'm not sure how meaningful that is.

[DVaut1]

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I really think HS students should often consider a vocational program rather than regular HS. Of course the government monopoly on education would have to be removed too...

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Uh, what? At least in some states, high school students can opt out of traditional high schools and attend vocational public schools. I grew up in the suburban Boston area, and I knew a good number of my peers chose to go here instead of traditional public school ('here' = a fully state-funded, public vocational high school).

So, if the implication here is that states don't fund vocational high school options, that's patently false.

Not only that, I'm certainly that in many if not all states, students can attend private, accredited vocational schools in lieu of attending traditional high schools if they so choose, even if their state/school district doesn't fund them.

So, yeah, I'm not sure anything has to change for high school students to be able to attend vocational programs if they want.

[mosdef]

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I'll grant many of this forum agree, but I'm not sure how meaningful that is.

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Come on, man. We are the ultimate authority on political issues.

[DVaut1]

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I really think HS students should often consider a vocational program rather than regular HS. Of course the government monopoly on education would have to be removed too...

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Uh, what? At least in some states, high school students can opt out of traditional high schools and attend vocational public schools. I grew up in the suburban Boston area, and I knew a good number of my peers chose to go here instead of traditional public school ('here' = a fully state-funded, public vocational high school).

So, if the implication here is that states don't fund vocational high school options, that's patently false.

Not only that, I'm certainly that in many if not all states, students can attend private, accredited vocational schools in lieu of attending traditional high schools if they so choose, even if their state/school district doesn't fund them.

So, yeah, I'm not sure anything has to change for high school students to be able to attend vocational programs if they want.

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ojc,

I just re-read your post and realize that I may have misunderstood. If you read it one way, it seems to claim something like "high school students should consider vocational programs -- and this could happen if the government monopoly on education were removed". This is the way I first interpreted your post and my response is an answer to that.

Upon reflection, I've discovered that your post could also mean something like "one way to improve the education of young people in the US is for students/their parents/community leaders/etc. to seriously consider vocational programs as a viable and more preferable option more often than they currently do. And also, another way to improve American education is to remove the government monopoly".

If the latter is what you were intending to say, ignore my response quoted above.

[pvn]

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I've thought for a while that school as we have it in the US is a huge waste. College is a 4 year vacation that makes a 40+ hour work week all the more depressing when you transition. Better off for society if we just learn what we need to learn and start earning 3 years earlier. I know you were talking about high school, but the same principles apply.

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Who gets to determine what's "good for society" and "what we need to learn"? Should there be a bureau of indoctrination that determines what jobs everyone will be assigned then prescribes a slate of instruction to maximize performance of that one narrow task?

Narrowly-focused people are less fundamentally useful than broad-based people.

Broad based education makes for more adaptable people.

If *you* don't like college, or think it's a waste, then don't go - nobody is forced to, last time I checked.

[HeavilyArmed]

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As we all know, the US public school system is, by and large, a disgrace.

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Compared to what?

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Compared to 45 years ago.

[HeavilyArmed]

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Quote:
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As we all know, the US public school system is, by and large, a disgrace.


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I think there are a lot of people who don't consider this prima facie true...


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...and they're mostly NEA members.

[mosdef]

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Narrowly-focused people are less fundamentally useful than broad-based people.

Broad based education makes for more adaptable people.

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Interesting. This is the kind of statement that one usually hears from liberal socialists who support public funding of education because it creates access to opportunities that private school only would not, and then ultimately everybody benefits from having these "more adaptable people" around.

Deep down inside you are a statist. If you wish, I can arrange some sort of ceremony under which you can be "born again" as a liberal democrat. FEEL THE POWER OF PIERRE TRUDEAU, MY BROTHER! FEEL THE TRUTH OF TOMMY DOUGLAS!

[DVaut1]

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As we all know, the US public school system is, by and large, a disgrace.

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Compared to what?

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Compared to 45 years ago.

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Don't you mean: "Compared to 52 years and 9 months ago"?