286 billion Farm Aid Bill for 2008

[BCPVP]

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I'm not against "overproduction". For farmers in some countries, it may be beneficial to produce more than can be consumed domestically. Comparative advantage ftw.

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my point is that farmers in other countries will only overproduce if they are given subsidies or something, because by market forces only they wouldn't.

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If by "or something" you mean payment by a willing buyer somewhere else, sure.

Do you know what comparative advantage means?

[mosdef]

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my point is that farmers in other countries will only overproduce if they are given subsidies or something, because by market forces only they wouldn't.

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For real? Why wouldn't they grow things to sell if there's a demand for it?

[PLOlover]

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For real? Why wouldn't they grow things to sell if there's a demand for it?

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well the argument was that for US, normally demand will be satisfied by US farmers, but in the event that it is not, then these other countries will be expected to pick up the slack.

see what I mean?

[PLOlover]

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If by "or something" you mean payment by a willing buyer somewhere else, sure.

Do you know what comparative advantage means?

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well why are they gonna grow "extra" in case the US needs it. most of the time the US won't and the gamble won't pay off, and the extra production will drive prices down, that's what Imean.

[BCPVP]

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If by "or something" you mean payment by a willing buyer somewhere else, sure.

Do you know what comparative advantage means?

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well why are they gonna grow "extra" in case the US needs it. most of the time the US won't and the gamble won't pay off, and the extra production will drive prices down, that's what Imean.

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They grow "extra" because they believe someone somewhere else will buy it. It doesn't have to be the US. You think Japan produces all their food domestically?

[PLOlover]

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well the argument was that for US, normally demand will be satisfied by US farmers, but in the event that it is not, then these other countries will be expected to pick up the slack.

see what I mean?

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you also have to take into account that farming is something that takes a long time and is unpredictable.

[PLOlover]

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They grow "extra" because they believe someone somewhere else will buy it. It doesn't have to be the US. You think Japan produces all their food domestically?

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well here's the thing. if there's anticipated demand, and they produce that much, then there's no extra.

your position is that the farmers and market forces will produce to demand, ok fine, but then when something unanticipated happens, there will be less supply than was planned for.

I mean, if there is extra then it won't be sold or it will depress prices, so the market should correct for that.

in other words, the market wants supply = demand, or even a little less supply to keep price up a little, which is fine, but implicit in that is that there will be price spikes and stuff and because the market forces will not have overproduction.

I mean it's like saying , who created god, god1, who created god1, god2 , ...

[BCPVP]

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your position is that the farmers and market forces will produce to demand, ok fine, but then when something unanticipated happens, there will be less supply than was planned for.

I mean, if there is extra then it won't be sold or it will depress prices, so the market should correct for that.

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In the very short run, sure there could be a jump in food prices. I don't think I've argued against that. But the idea that farmers won't produce more than is demanded domestically without some sort of subsidy is absurd. There are plenty of other locations around the world where agriculture is not economically viable and need food from outside sources.

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in other words, the market wants supply = demand, or even a little less supply to keep price up a little

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Why would the market want less supply than expected demand? You realize the market is made up of buyers too, right?

[Money2Burn]

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They grow "extra" because they believe someone somewhere else will buy it. It doesn't have to be the US. You think Japan produces all their food domestically?

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well here's the thing. if there's anticipated demand, and they produce that much, then there's no extra.

your position is that the farmers and market forces will produce to demand, ok fine, but then when something unanticipated happens, there will be less supply than was planned for.

I mean, if there is extra then it won't be sold or it will depress prices, so the market should correct for that.

in other words, the market wants supply = demand, or even a little less supply to keep price up a little, which is fine, but implicit in that is that there will be price spikes and stuff and because the market forces will not have overproduction.

I mean it's like saying , who created god, god1, who created god1, god2 , ...

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Yes and demand is already much much higher than the bare minimum of what people need to survive, so if some natural disaster happens and supply is severely cut, people will still be ok. You are going off the premise that as it is farmers only supply exactly what people need to live. The actual demand is much higher than that.

Also, the chances of there being some event that would cause the type of shortages you are talking about are very very slim, farmers are very good in this country and don't usually have trouble producing enough food so people can live. Also, why should we waste money year in and year out subsiding farmers for an event that is extremely unlikely to happen?

[PLOlover]

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But the idea that farmers won't produce more than is demanded domestically without some sort of subsidy is absurd. There are plenty of other locations around the world where agriculture is not economically viable and need food from outside sources.

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well just take total demand. why would they produce more than the anticipated total demand? and if you'[re saying that if they underproduce too much just buy from somwehre else, just ask, why would that somewhere else be produceing over demand?

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Why would the market want less supply than expected demand? You realize the market is made up of buyers too, right?

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because if ten units of producting meets demand, risk of overproduction is bad, and underproduction actually makes more money, so it will skew production down a bit.

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