Hi/Lo (4A)4

[2461Badugi]

Not thrilled with the way I played this. Other line suggestions? I pretty much hate folding fourth or fifth here, but maybe I have to.

7 Card Stud High-Low ($10/$20), Ante $1, Bring-In $3 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 3: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds

4th Street - (3.10 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___calls

5th Street - (2.55 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (4.55 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

River - (6.55 BB)

Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___bets
Hero: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

Total pot: (8.55 BB)

Maybe I should raise fifth instead?

[Alchemist]

I play it the same way and I'm not sure you should really raise anywhere (except maybe 3rd?) because I don't think you have any fold equity whatsoever.

I think even the river is close to a fold.

[Micturition Man]

Raise 3rd.

It's a surprisingly strong hand, as I learned recently from some twodimes work. You can actually reraise in many situation on 3rd if you have the A up.

[Alchemist]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise 3rd.

It's a surprisingly strong hand, as I learned recently from some twodimes work. You can actually reraise in many situation on 3rd if you have the A up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where would you draw the line for not completing 3rd with this hand? e.g. how many babies to act behind you, if an Ace was behind you, you're UTG, etc. I can see completing in this spot more as a semi-steal/deception as opposed to value (which it does have).

[2461Badugi]

[ QUOTE ]
I play it the same way and I'm not sure you should really raise anywhere (except maybe 3rd?) because I don't think you have any fold equity whatsoever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm having second thoughts on raising fifth. If I were able to be more confident in still having position on sixth it would be a good free card play, but I think I end up acting first too often.

[2461Badugi]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise 3rd.

It's a surprisingly strong hand, as I learned recently from some twodimes work. You can actually reraise in many situation on 3rd if you have the A up.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have a point. I think this may have been influenced by me running bad in the session, and my completes getting isolated a fair amount. That's hardly a worry with J,2,2 behind me here though.

[Micturition Man]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise 3rd.

It's a surprisingly strong hand, as I learned recently from some twodimes work. You can actually reraise in many situation on 3rd if you have the A up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where would you draw the line for not completing 3rd with this hand? e.g. how many babies to act behind you, if an Ace was behind you, you're UTG, etc. I can see completing in this spot more as a semi-steal/deception as opposed to value (which it does have).

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm not really sure but my concern is low overcards to my 4.

To be fair I play in reasonably tight games where I always open-complete. I guess I would prefer a limp if you were confident you would get 2 low opponents even if you completed.

[RubbishCards]

My theorem of dead cards in stud/8: when there are 5 or more dead cards out on 3rd that help you, you are definitely going to brick out. As this example shows, it only applies to you, not the other guy.

[Phat Mack]

A few questions about third street:

Do you want to play this hand multi-way or heads up?

Of the seven other door cards you see, how many are your outs?

How do you want this hand to play out?


(I think there are places where (Ac4s)4c is playable, like when you can get it heads up against a big pair, but I can't see a way to make money from it here.)

[UpstateMatt]

I don't think this can be folded on 5th.

I think I'd raise 5th, and bet 6th unless he catches perfect. We can represent a pretty strong hand here, which should keep villain from raising most of the time. There's definitely fold equity on 6th if he paired on 4th or 5th and then catches a banana on 6th.

I don't think this strategy will cost you more bets that often - if you're in position you'll either win with a bet on 6th, get a free showdown on the river, or you'll be more able to make a correct fold on 6th or 7th. If you're out of position, you'll have made two pair or an 8 a good amount of the time.

As played, i'd probably call the river.