2-4 hand....JJ.....HU against a preflop 3better

euroglot · #1 10-10-2007, 07:56 PM

Villain is 35.7/7.1/2.5 after 14 hands

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero caps, CO calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls.

River: (9.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB

Was my preflpcap good?

Should I have checkt the turn?

NoSetNoBet · #2 10-10-2007, 08:12 PM

I don't like the preflop cap, but I could be wrong.

As played, I don't see how we're good on the turn. Are we calling the raise because the flush draw may be good? If so, why call the river?

euroglot · #3 10-10-2007, 08:23 PM

Straightdraw, flushdraw, 2 jack outs..

I'm calling the river because he could have bluffraised me with ace of diamonds.....should I've folded?

StrictlyStrategy · #4 10-10-2007, 11:01 PM

PF is bad. As played fold river.

KitCloudkicker · #5 10-10-2007, 11:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I'm calling the river because he could have bluffraised me with ace of diamonds.....should I've folded?

[/ QUOTE ]

ok i'm just going to focus on this river call for now.

your logic for calling the river is one I see all the time: "I'm getting good odds, he could be bluffing, so I call."

There are a number of problems with using this logic.

1) you are conveniently ignoring all of the action that happened on the previous streets. you have already shown massive strength preflop and continued it on the flop. you have bet into a K-hi flop. why would any sane opponent choose to bluff you after this show of strength?

2) what are you putting villain on that you beat? why would he call the flop with a hand like AdQx? remember, he 3 bet preflop. what is his range? out of this range, is it ever possible for him to raise the turn with a hand you beat?

In short, you need to stop thinking about the river in a vacuum. You have to put him on a range of hands and then decide how likely it is that he has you beat given the previous action. You cant conveniently pick a hand that "he could bluff with" and then assume that "well, 15% he has Adx".

In this hand, after all of the previous action, unless this villain has lost his mind completely, you are good here 0% of the time. thus you have to fold this river. using "well he could be bluffing this time" as your rationale for playing the river is equivalent to donating a BB.

OziBattler · #6 10-11-2007, 12:27 AM

this hand was overplayed read the other posts

One Outer · #7 10-11-2007, 01:35 AM

PF cap sucks. We've got someone three bumping us while they're out of position. Wow.

c/c flop, c/c turn, c/f river. You lost 2.5 BB more than you needed to on this one (.5 pf, 1 turn, 1 river).

I don't want to be a prick, but I have to say something. This is the fourth hand you've posted today. I remember Aussie Battler specifically calling you out on not taking full advantage of the forums. In particular, he wanted you to participate in discussions of hands other than the ones you post. I agree and just out of curiosity I searched the last two weeks and found that you haven't contributed to a single thread other than the hand histories that you post.

The vast majority of the learning done on this forum is in responding to others' hand histories. Maybe this is why you keep posting hands that have the same mistakes in them over and over again.

StrictlyStrategy · #8 10-11-2007, 02:46 AM

Nobody minds the flop call?

He's unknown but I still think we're dying here.

Mitke · #9 10-11-2007, 03:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Nobody minds the flop call?

He's unknown but I still think we're dying here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hero's leading after capping preflop, not calling.

The villain is 3-betting a TAG's (?) EP raise -> JJ+, AK maybe TT/AQs. We are indeed dying and could even c/f this flop. Our backdoors don't help much.

My instincts say bet after capping but there's not much we beat or better hands we get to fold here. Fold could be good on the flop.

One Outer · #10 10-11-2007, 03:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Nobody minds the flop call?

[/ QUOTE ]

I considered this in my responses but chose not to say anything. After hero caps I think this becomes one of those "in the heat of battle" things where technically c/f the flop would be what he should do but given the rhythm of the hand is not what is going to happen.