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#1
10-09-2007, 05:28 AM
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Middle pair, top kicker flop in big pot
I had sort of forgotten about this hand until I was screwing around in the 2+2 Collective Wisdom collection and read Ed Miller's post on how much the microlimit players suck at adjusting their play based on the size of the pot. Now I'm wondering if I could have played this differently to maximize my shot at winning the pot.
Villain is a player I have posted about before. I wouldn't go so far as to call him a lag but he certainly isn't passive and he plays lots of hands. He is a "gear changer", therefore his PF raising range is pretty wide. In case anyone is wondering about my preflop decision making, CO and Button are both ultraloose. Given the limps and the blinds this pot is going to be 6 handed minimum. Maybe my call still sucks. Anyhoo, as played... Canterbury Park 6/12, full game Hero is HJ with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 limps, Villain raises, Hero calls, CO and Button call, SB folds, BB and all others call Flop (8 handed, 16.5 SB): T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Checks to Villain who bets, Hero calls, CO and Button call, BB folds, two calls I'm thinking that I should have raised here to try and knock out as many players as possible behind me. Even if I do get two to three CCers or a three bet doesn't this make the hand easier to play on the turn? I assumed at the time against that field I was drawing and that led to me making what may have been a mistake. Turn (5 handed, 13 BB): 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] All check to Villain who bets again, Hero... Would this also be appropriate time to raise? I wonder how often I'm still ahead of Villain on the turn when he has now fired a second shot into a big field. All thoughts appreciated. 
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#3
10-09-2007, 10:47 AM
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Re: Middle pair, top kicker flop in big pot
if you want to see a showdown you must put in a raise at some point in this hand.
the question is, do you want to see a showdown against this guy? i also dont like PF as it sets you up for this kind of crap on the flop. if UTG raised and then 3 people called, you can call. but your position here is poor.
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#4
10-09-2007, 11:36 AM
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Re: Middle pair, top kicker flop in big pot
Fold PF.
Raise Flop.
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#5
10-09-2007, 12:19 PM
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Re: Middle pair, top kicker flop in big pot
Calling preflop does suck. If you really think he's splashing around and you can get it 2 or 3-handed then reraise. But I'd advocate a fold. A "gear changer" range may be wide, but it is generally more narrow in middle position after three limpers come in.
Raise flop. The maxim is "Play more aggressively in large pots." Although some people take this too far, the board here looks ideal for a raise. You'd raise this flop with 99 or J-10, right? Same deal.
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#6
10-09-2007, 01:02 PM
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Re: Middle pair, top kicker flop in big pot
[ QUOTE ]
A "gear changer" range may be wide, but it is generally more narrow in middle position after three limpers come in. [/ QUOTE ] Huh? OP- If you're closing the action I might go along with your preflop call. Otherwise I fold. As played raise, the flop.
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#7
10-09-2007, 01:24 PM
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Re: Middle pair, top kicker flop in big pot
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] A "gear changer" range may be wide, but it is generally more narrow in middle position after three limpers come in. [/ QUOTE ] Huh? [/ QUOTE ] What I mean is, if it looks like he is not a total LAG, he could just be more wild when he thinks he can raise to shorthand the pot and outplay a smaller field postflop with position. It may appear he's raising a lot of junky hands, but he may not do this when against a larger number of limpers and/or in a position that is 3 off the button. This looks like a classic value raise with a legitimate hand. And as mentioned, OP's relative position destroys the ability to extract bets with a flush (think about it), so the hand is not much better than A8o.
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#8
10-09-2007, 01:27 PM
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Re: Middle pair, top kicker flop in big pot
[ QUOTE ]
And as mentioned, OP's relative position destroys the ability to extract bets with a flush (think about it), so the hand is not much better than A8o. [/ QUOTE ] Great point. As I acknowledged in the OP I retrospectively disapprove of my pf call. This is a great lesson value in relative position. Thank you.
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