What books? 2+2 bonus? SH or FR?

mickske · #1 10-06-2007, 01:38 PM

Hello everyone,

First of, let me introduce myself. I'm a beginning poker player, I have been playing for 3 months now. I started of playing for fun, not caring wether I won or lost money, but as time went by I got more interested in the game and as many players who want to advance in this game, I ended up here.

I want to expand, I want to learn, I want to become a winning player. I realize this is not as easy process, but I have time and I am willing to putt alot of time and effort in to studying the game. I do however have a few questions and I would really appreciate it if you guys could help me out.

Over the past months I have been playing both Limit and No Limit Hold'em and even though I enjoy both, I feel I am way too reckless to play No Limit. I have chosen to learn to play Limit Hold'em - for now.

What books should I read?

At the moment I am reading Small Stakes Hold'em, a book which I am liking alot, but I am looking for another book to work through after I am done reading this one. Most other books I am able to get my hands on are aimed towards No Limit Hold'em, and some I do not know what they focus on by reading the title. So if you have any suggestions, please feel free to let me know!

Can I clear the 2+2 bonus on microstakes LHE?

Is it possible to clear the bonus playing 0.05/0.10 LHE? While playing on Pokerstars, I noticed that playing 10NL I got about 3FPP/hour on 1 table. Playing 0.05/0.10 LHE (Bet: 0.20) I got zero/0/nada FPP/hour on 1 table. With my current bankroll and skill it is impossible for me to move up at this time.

Short handed (6max) or Full Ring?

The last question! Before reading anything about poker, I played FR on Everest Poker and I made money. Not much, but I made money. After reading a bit on various forums I started playing on Pokerstars. I made money on NL FR. I lost money on NL SH. I've been playing LHE SH lately and I am enjoying it, but I am losing money. I'm not losing much, but I barely run breakeven. I like SH more, but should I stick to FR as a beginner?

Thanks for your time, I will appreciate any anwser given to me, and hopefully I will see you at the tables one day... in a year or 2. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Sushiglutton · #2 10-06-2007, 02:00 PM

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Hello everyone

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Hi!

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I want to expand, I want to learn, I want to become a winning player. I realize this is not as easy process, but I have time and I am willing to putt alot of time and effort in to studying the game. I do however have a few questions and I would really appreciate it if you guys could help me out.

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You have come the right place if you want to improve. There are many guys that posts here regularly who are great. They have transformed me from a donator on the micro levels into beating 1/2. Just one 'warning'. The climate here can be pretty rough. If someone calls you an 'idiot', 'how can u be so stupid', 'do something else with ur time' etc. Just ignore them.
They are just bored and think it's fun to make others feel stupid. But take there advice seriously!

[ QUOTE ]
What books should I read?

At the moment I am reading Small Stakes Hold'em, a book which I am liking alot, but I am looking for another book to work through after I am done reading this one. Most other books I am able to get my hands on are aimed towards No Limit Hold'em, and some I do not know what they focus on by reading the title. So if you have any suggestions, please feel free to let me know!

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I think SSHEM is the best limit book written. Here are some other favourites:

1) Theory of poker, David Sklansky
2) Holdem for advanced players, Sklansky Malmouth
3) Winning in tough holdem games, Grudzien
4) How good is your limit holdem?, Byron
5) Middle limit holdem, Ciaffone, Brier.

I think these are all great. So there is no order. Chek'em out.

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Can I clear the 2+2 bonus on microstakes LHE?

Is it possible to clear the bonus playing 0.05/0.10 LHE? While playing on Pokerstars, I noticed that playing 10NL I got about 3FPP/hour on 1 table. Playing 0.05/0.10 LHE (Bet: 0.20) I got zero/0/nada FPP/hour on 1 table. With my current bankroll and skill it is impossible for me to move up at this time.

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I think it's tough to try to clear bonuses playing this low. So save them fro when you are ready to move up. I don't know anything about ur economy situation, but once you start feeling more comfortable about ur game it may be smart to make an investment of say $150 and start playng .25/.5. This level is still easily beatable for someone who has studied the game.

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Short handed (6max) or Full Ring?

The last question! Before reading anything about poker, I played FR on Everest Poker and I made money. Not much, but I made money. After reading a bit on various forums I started playing on Pokerstars. I made money on NL FR. I lost money on NL SH. I've been playing LHE SH lately and I am enjoying it, but I am losing money. I'm not losing much, but I barely run breakeven. I like SH more, but should I stick to FR as a beginner?

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FR is less variance which is good if you don't have such a large bankroll. But playing a single table FR is pretty boring? If you have trouble concentrating I think it's better to play SH. IMO it's better to play a single table in the beginning, so you can think through ur decissions.

Good luck at the tables and see you in the forum.

mickske · #3 10-06-2007, 02:15 PM

Thanks for your anwsers.

- I know things can get rough, but I can handle it. Thanks for the warning. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

- Except for the first book in that list I haven't seen any of the other on the online webshops I have been looking at. I will have to check out some more stores and see if they offer any of these books. Thanks for the list.

- Isn't a 150$ a bit too small for .25/.5? I don't really know alot about "LHE bankroll management" - I just figured it would be wise to use the NL rule -> *20 BI which would mean 1000$ for .25/.5 LHE.

- I agree with both of your statements. It's better to pla a single table while I am still learning, and single table FR is very (very) boring. I think I will just stick to SH and try to beat it.

Bona · #4 10-06-2007, 03:27 PM

Welcome to the forum. Sushi gave you great advice. Also... as far as bankroll is concerned, $150 is plenty for .25/.50 if you are a winning player. If you are not playing at a winning level, no bankroll is enough.

Smurph64 · #5 10-06-2007, 04:27 PM

Read Lee Jones book, its an excellent beginner guide to LHE

I would suggest you play FR as there is less variance there. It's much better to understand and figure out mistakes when you have more money in the pot to work with.

The blinds at sh will probably chew you up more than you need to lose.

I would concentrate on getting 20k hands in before you move up past .25/.50 limit so even if your bankroll can handle higher limits, I would cap there.

Stick to playing one table, there is lots of things to learn and do at a fr table so you shouldn't get bored.

Sushiglutton · #6 10-06-2007, 05:20 PM

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- Isn't a 150$ a bit too small for .25/.5? I don't really know alot about "LHE bankroll management" - I just figured it would be wise to use the NL rule -> *20 BI which would mean 1000$ for .25/.5 LHE.

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300bb is what's recomended for FR limit. SH you need more in theory, because of the higher variance. Check out the faq for some more on these topics. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showth...e=0#Post1659321

Montrealcorp · #7 10-06-2007, 08:29 PM

"Read Lee Jones book, its an excellent beginner guide to LHE"

please dont.....i mean not this one,please in 2007...

the one miller wrote or Internet Texas Hold'em by hilger.

both are much better...and by far..

maverickai · #8 10-07-2007, 01:25 AM

I would say reading is not adequate. The books are great, and they did increase my knowledge, but I still fall short on application. But this forum is great for teaching you the application of the theories.

Post your hands here, especiallly those which you're not sure what to do in that situation.

mickske · #9 10-07-2007, 10:42 AM

Thanks everyone for your contribution. I will be checking these forums daily and I will try to participate in conversations and give my (newbie) anwser to people asking for advice to their hands. I will always start my post by saying that I am a beginner and that I am just looking for anwsers to my thoughts in those specific situation aswell.

Today I had been playing a .02/0.04 LHE game, and I noticed a very very predictable and loose player on my table. I did a search for him and found him on a 0.25/0.50 table which I joined just to take his money (which I did, he went broke and left the table.)

Just as I was about to leave I was dealt aces. This was the last hand I woud be playing, but I'm afraid I screwed up on the turn.

PokerMHLion and AliceD were both pretty loose passive players.

I bet preflop. I raise the flop and call the reraise. Should I have 3-bet?
Then the turn... I was scared of the 4. I was scared of AliceD's reraise. I check the turn figuring AliceD would raise. The reason why I didn't bet is because of the 4's and I didn't want to pay an extra bet If I was beat by a 4. Unfortunately AliceD checks, the 3rd flush card hits. I bet again on the river, AliceD calls and shows a pair of sixes.

Should I have 3-bet the flop?
Should I have bet the turn (pretty sure it's a YES here) and 3-bet or call to a possible reraise?

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: (7.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, Button raises, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (6.70 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, Button checks.

River: (6.70 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 folds, Button calls.

Final Pot: 8.70 BB

Fantam · #10 10-07-2007, 11:09 AM

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MP1 and Button were both pretty loose passive players.

I bet preflop. I bet the flop and call the raise. Should I have 3-bet?
Then the turn... I was scared of the 4. I was scared of Button's flop raise. I check the turn figuring Button would bet. The reason why I didn't bet is because of the 4's and I didn't want to pay an extra bet If I was beat by a 4. Unfortunately button checks, the 3rd flush card hits. I bet again on the river and button calls.

Should I have 3-bet the flop?
Should I have bet the turn (pretty sure it's a YES here) and 3-bet or call to a possible reraise?

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: (7.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 calls, Button raises, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (6.70 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, Button checks.

River: (6.70 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 folds, Button calls.

Final Pot: 8.70 BB

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Fixed your post. You dont need to post results as it can bias the responses that you get.

I dont think that you played this hand that badly. A passive player could easily have raised your flop bet with trip 4's (as there were no possible straight or flush draws on the flop).

Anyway, I suppose that a reasonable alternative line would have been to 3-bet the flop and lead the turn.

What you should be careful to avoid doing though, is to be influenced by the results of the hand, when reviewing your play.