Top set - when to stop raising?

ntnBO · #1 11-10-2007, 05:31 PM

No read on villain.

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, Villain calls, 3 folds, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: (7.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, Villain calls, Button folds.

Turn: (4.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Villain raises, Hero 3-bets, Villain caps, Hero calls.

River: (12.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Villain raises, Hero ?????

One Outer · #2 11-10-2007, 05:35 PM

calls. standard

RossSi · #3 11-10-2007, 06:13 PM

I guess we're putting him on a made straight on the turn, rather than TT, AT or a lower set (99, 77) or some other two pair. It seems like hands we beat make up a larger part of his potential range here. Plus a lot of online - and perhaps live players) will wait for the turn to raise with a flopped set and sometimes two pair.

If he doesn't cold call with J8 or 86 then don't we have to put him on something we beat (and think he's putting us on top pair) and 3B the river.

I think three town the river.

ntnBO · #4 11-10-2007, 06:24 PM

My thinking was this, he cold called with with 6 players behind him. I can't put him on J8s or 86s. I can only put him on two high cards or any PP with a very outside chance of a hand like 98s. Now if he was in late position and the pot was looking to be multi-way, then that is certainly in many players ranges.

Of course this is logical thought and thankfully many players at this level don't have that ability.

BO

One Outer · #5 11-10-2007, 06:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I guess we're putting him on a made straight on the turn, rather than TT, AT or a lower set (99, 77) or some other two pair. It seems like hands we beat make up a larger part of his potential range here. Plus a lot of online - and perhaps live players) will wait for the turn to raise with a flopped set and sometimes two pair.

If he doesn't cold call with J8 or 86 then don't we have to put him on something we beat (and think he's putting us on top pair) and 3B the river.

I think three town the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

villain capped turn and then hero led into him on the river. he's still raising. I think this is the nuts way more often than a set. lol at two pair here, too.

ntnBO · #6 11-10-2007, 06:51 PM

FWIW, here is another hand from the same session that gives an idea of what other players will pump with.

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Button :Villain raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Button :Villain calls.

Flop: (16 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Villain raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, Villain caps, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (16 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, Villain calls.

River: (18 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Villain raises, Hero 3-bets, Villain caps, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 26 BB

Results below:
Villain has 9s Jc (two pair, jacks and nines).
Hero has Ks Kd (three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 26 BB.

chesspain · #7 11-10-2007, 06:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain capped turn and then hero led into him on the river. he's still raising. I think this is the nuts way more often than a set. lol at two pair here, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm reraising the river, calling a cap, and expecting to be shown TT/AT or a slowplayed 99/77/A9/A7 well more than 50% of the time. If villain coldcalled PF w/86 or J8, then good for him.

One Outer · #8 11-10-2007, 07:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Villain capped turn and then hero led into him on the river. he's still raising. I think this is the nuts way more often than a set. lol at two pair here, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm reraising the river, calling a cap, and expecting to be shown TT/AT or a slowplayed 99/77/A9/A7 well more than 50% of the time. If villain coldcalled PF w/86 or J8, then good for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

note to self: not good enough to comment on online play

Blzdwrath · #9 11-10-2007, 07:31 PM

I jam the pot here everytime

BubbleMint · #10 11-10-2007, 08:06 PM

I suffer with M.U.B.S at the best of times, but even I am 3 towning this river.