NL 50 - KK - did I eff this hand up? - Page 2

vincelauro · #11 09-19-2007, 12:19 AM

I would have played the same, from a 3rd person point of view, raise more preflop, 2/3 pot the turn

stevematador · #12 09-19-2007, 12:21 AM

You played preflop and flop perfectly IMHO, but I don't like the check on the turn, it tells me you're worried about the str8 or two pair, trips etc., but you need to fire again on that turn and then evaluate. By checking you accomplish nothing and you still committed all your chips after he fired the $22.25 bet. If you knew you would call or jam his bet on turn anyway, you mine as well bet first.

I think if you fire the big bet on turn he folds, and if he does call and sucks out you can write it off to bad luck as the donkey villian just sucked out. But the check on turn makes him sense you may be weak causing him to take over the lead in the hand, now you are losing the hand no matter how you play it from this point on because you have no fold equity anymore.

CalledDownLight · #13 09-19-2007, 12:25 AM

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but you need to fire again on that turn and then evaluate

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wtf?

Chargers In 07 · #14 09-19-2007, 12:32 AM

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but you need to fire again on that turn and then evaluate

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wtf?

[/ QUOTE ]ban.

Chargers In 07 · #15 09-19-2007, 12:43 AM

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but I don't like the check on the turn, it tells me you're worried about the str8 or two pair, trips etc.,

[/ QUOTE ]It's a reraised pot and the money is going in somehow on the turn/river, it's just a matter of how to do it. You're not telling him anything by checking the turn. If you fire the turn a stubborn AK/AQ and 88-QQ may fold and we don't want our opponents to play correctly by folding.

[ QUOTE ]
but you need to fire again on that turn and then evaluate.

[/ QUOTE ] evaluate what? It's a reraised pot. You have KK and you have a potsized bet left. You're committed and there is no folding.

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By checking you accomplish nothing and you still committed all your chips after he fired the $22.25 bet. If you knew you would call or jam his bet on turn anyway, you mine as well bet first.

[/ QUOTE ] By checking the turn he got his opponent to go all in with him while his opponent was behind! The fact that he's calling a push if hero pushes is irrelevant. Checking also gets him to bet 88-QQ/random pairs/draws/bluffs that he has that would not call a bet had he bet. He didn't commit all his chips on the turn either, he committed them on the flop.

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But the check on turn makes him sense you may be weak causing him to take over the lead in the hand, now you are losing the hand no matter how you play it from this point on because you have no fold equity anymore.

[/ QUOTE ] this all doesn't matter because you only have 1 psb left.

As I said earlier, I'd bet the turn but checking is not bad either.

stevematador · #16 09-19-2007, 01:19 AM

Chargers in 07, didn't the OP say he was worried about a str8 on the turn and this is why he checked??? He's not checking to trap, he's checking because he feels he's possibly behind. What I am saying to him is if you're going to call your chips off thinking you may be behind to a str8, you mine as well take the lead in case he's on a draw or, exactly what happened may happen, getting sucked out by two pair by not leading out on the turn.

It's one thing to trap with a monster hand, but with this board and possible draws that the villian could be on, how can checking be correct, how could possibly allowing a free card with this board be correct, especially if you plan on calling a big bet on the turn anyway. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Chargers In 07 · #17 09-19-2007, 01:38 AM

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What I am saying to him is if you're going to call your chips off thinking you may be behind to a str8, you mine as well take the lead in case he's on a draw or, exactly what happened may happen, getting sucked out by two pair by not leading out on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]He didn't lose the hand because he checked. His opponent is calling a push anyways. You're being extremely results oriented here. As I already said I think betting is best but checking is ok because you can induce bluffs or get him to shove worse that he will fold to a bet so "might as well bet incase he's on a draw" is bad thinking for two reasons IMO 1) people are unlikely to have draws here and 2)people will bet a bigger range than they will call with here.

All that said I change my mind about betting being better.

I'mVeryBusy · #18 09-19-2007, 04:40 AM

i did not mean to post the results. first hand posting for me. either way - i said his bet on the turn lead me to believe he did not have the str8. I think i should have pushed on the turn but not because of the results.

i was being a nit the more i think about it. I had been sucked out on for 3 previous hands and i played this bad imo. i was scared of the board but it soesnt make sense why. I got scared of 1 card after I 3 bet preflop. I should have bet the turn - or checked if I thought villian had a set. I was scared of a str8 and that is just silly on this board, so is 2 pair. if i thought he had a set I should have folded.

it was a wierd hand agnst a donkey. I am interested to see what you guys would ahve thought had i not posted the results.....