Preflop decision with ladies against hachem

[MadeHand]

I have no read on Hachem's play but I do see people including top online pros shoving with AK all the time, particularly as your min reraise looks like weakness. There are more combinations of AK than AA or KK so as we never know exactly what hand he has it makes folding here very hard when you consider the range he is on.

[PoorUser]

easy allin

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
My thoughts during the hand were that raising would almost make it easier to fold to a shove (and thus the minraise), given the amount of strength a 5-bet would indicate. If I just call, he can put me on a wider range of hands (or can he?) and perhaps shove lighter, putting me to a tougher decision.

Would you smoothcall or reraise with AA? KK? AK? And what do you think Hachem's assumption of these ranges might be? What does he put me on when I minreraise?

[/ QUOTE ]

coldcalling would be for 16% of your stack, so no one would be getting even close to the right price to try to overcall and set mine against you... so yes, you could do it with any big hand, and I think it's probably correct to just call there with any hand you want to play. No one should be making a move at you because your range is pretty strong at this point (including the nuts) and the guy that shoved in front of you should have a reasonable range as well.

as for what Hachem would think, I obviously don't know anything much about him specifically, but I think in general people are not going to be giving your min-reraise more respect than a coldcall due to what I mentioned above, and because the reraise looks like you're trying to isolate with a good, but vulnerable hand.

also, coldcalling and folding to a shove behind you is cheaper than what you did, so in order to justify the extra investment you need to believe that your reraise gives you *significantly* better information when you do face a shove. I don't think that is the case.

[DJ Sensei]

nice soah, thats a good case for coldcalling

[zaxx19]

[ QUOTE ]
I have no read on Hachem's play but I do see people including top online pros shoving with AK all the time, particularly as your min reraise looks like weakness. There are more combinations of AK than AA or KK so as we never know exactly what hand he has it makes folding here very hard when you consider the range he is on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, I agree if this is a tourney...and maybe im out of my element(I play primarily 5-10 live some 2-5 and an occassionalforay into 10-20 when I take a shot)but I just dont see how AK makes a move here in a full ring game.....that is certainly more of a tournament type play IMHO.

I cringe and fold...im fairly tight though for a profitable player at these levels.

[stephenNUTS]

[ QUOTE ]
also, coldcalling and folding to a shove behind you is cheaper than what you did, so in order to justify the extra investment you need to believe that your reraise gives you *significantly* better information when you do face a shove. I don't think that is the case.[ QUOTE ]


Well said

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]


coldcalling would be for 16% of your stack, so no one would be getting even close to the right price to try to overcall and set mine against you... so yes, you could do it with any big hand, and I think it's probably correct to just call there with any hand you want to play. No one should be making a move at you because your range is pretty strong at this point (including the nuts) and the guy that shoved in front of you should have a reasonable range as well.



[/ QUOTE ]

Soah, doesn't the 25, 50, 185, 925 & 925 in the pot give a set miner enough 'pot + stack odds' to set mine? Just playing devil's advocate.

[soah]

when you factor in the chances of getting stacked by an overset, you need something like 11:1 with implied odds to set mine... this hand isn't even close to that

[zaxx19]

[ QUOTE ]
when you factor in the chances of getting stacked by an overset, you need something like 11:1 with implied odds to set mine... this hand isn't even close to that

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe im just really tired but I would like to see the math on that really fast...im probably just delirious after 40 hours of casino poker and insomnia but are you taking into account SOME frequency of non-paired hands like AK that can overset us...im just confused at this point...should we always be looking at 11-1 to set mine when you know youll stack an opponent if you hit?

I guess you end up getting oversetted or just plain beat somewhow 18% of the time right?

Im so confused where the 11-1 comes from..especially with some extra money. I must be missing something very basic here sorry.

[soah]

the math was all done in some MSNL thread long ago... assuming that your opponent has an overpair 100% of the time and will always stack off with it, calling 8% of your stack preflop is the breakeven point for setmining

obviously it's hard to ever be 100% sure of anything like this when you are calling, but we're looking from the other angle, where we have a big pocket pair and we're looking to see if we're leaving ourselves vulnerable to being setmined