Review of Pot Limit and No Limit Poker by Stewart and Ciaffone - Page 4

SplawnDarts · #31 02-25-2007, 04:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The book fails to explain the concepts of NL and PL in a rather obvious way:

A. It doesn't cover betting schemes. It doesn't tell you when (and why) to make a min-raise, when to bet half the pot, when to bet 2/3, potsize or all-in.

B. It doesn't explain the difference in pre-flop selection between NL and PL.

Last but not least, it's not a book in the traditional sense, it's a collection of essays.

[/ QUOTE ]
Guess you didn't read too carefully, since each and every topic you mention is discussed (although I don't think the authors ever advocate a min raise, which is fine).

RedGladiator · #32 02-25-2007, 05:54 PM

It's not that the book is bad, it's just outdated.

Sure it was great back in it's time as supersystem was.
Today most people don't play these "other" games in PL&NLP and S/S. Infact I'm pretty sure reading S/S, the WHOLE book would actually improve my NLHE quited a bit.

stigmata · #33 02-26-2007, 09:05 AM

This book is as deep & subtle as it gets in poker literature.
Re-read it, absorb it, think about it.
Don't skip over any sections.

Shandrax · #34 02-26-2007, 10:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The book fails to explain the concepts of NL and PL in a rather obvious way:

A. It doesn't cover betting schemes. It doesn't tell you when (and why) to make a min-raise, when to bet half the pot, when to bet 2/3, potsize or all-in.

B. It doesn't explain the difference in pre-flop selection between NL and PL.

Last but not least, it's not a book in the traditional sense, it's a collection of essays.

[/ QUOTE ]
Guess you didn't read too carefully, since each and every topic you mention is discussed (although I don't think the authors ever advocate a min raise, which is fine).

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a difference between vaguely mentioning something in two to three sentences and analysing it deeply. For me everything in this book is written way too superficial.

Shandrax · #35 02-26-2007, 10:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This book is as deep & subtle as it gets in poker literature.
Re-read it, absorb it, think about it.
Don't skip over any sections.

[/ QUOTE ]

?????

stigmata · #36 02-26-2007, 10:56 AM

It's not supposed to teach you basic strategy -- there's plenty of other books which talk about betting schemes etc. It covers some pretty esoteric concepts which go beyond basic strategy. I agree that it's more a collection of related essays than anything else.

fraac · #37 02-26-2007, 07:12 PM

Unfortunately, at the current level of poker literature, betting schemes are as deep as it gets.

SplawnDarts · #38 02-26-2007, 07:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The book fails to explain the concepts of NL and PL in a rather obvious way:

A. It doesn't cover betting schemes. It doesn't tell you when (and why) to make a min-raise, when to bet half the pot, when to bet 2/3, potsize or all-in.

B. It doesn't explain the difference in pre-flop selection between NL and PL.

Last but not least, it's not a book in the traditional sense, it's a collection of essays.

[/ QUOTE ]
Guess you didn't read too carefully, since each and every topic you mention is discussed (although I don't think the authors ever advocate a min raise, which is fine).

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a difference between vaguely mentioning something in two to three sentences and analysing it deeply. For me everything in this book is written way too superficial.

[/ QUOTE ]

The basic stuff is superficial because Bob assumes you know it. They go into more detail on concepts that the average person who knows how to play OK already might be interested in.

Edenfield99 · #39 02-27-2007, 12:06 PM

It's a great book, it was the third book I read on poker and I still reread it every 6 months or so. It's not an easy read, it is definately not an ABC style book, but in some ways it is all the better for this. If you have to work at understanding it you will learn more than being told 'raise here, fold there'.
I have to disagree with the poster who says it is out of date, it is before it's time.....when it was written LHE and stud were the big games....now everyone is playing NLHE, PLO and PLO8.
It also helps if you're from the UK where we play pot-limit everything. I'm playing stud, lowball draw and london lowball in our home game every week and there are no other books on the big bet versions of these games (OK, SS has lowball draw).
I think the problem people have is that it is more a collection of concepts rather than instruction so please don't read chapters in isolation as you will learn things from reading about the games you don't play.

JohnG · #40 02-28-2007, 12:14 PM

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I had heard rumor that Ciaffone was working on a book specific to NLH. Can anyone confirm this, and when it might release? Hopefully this new book won't get into discussions about London Lowball, etc.

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This book has been delayed so often, it may never be finished. From what I heard when he first started writing it, it was to be a NLHE book in the style of his middle limit book- i.e. lots of hand examples. I think it was originally intended to be finished 2 years ago.