Fold kings?

[PhatPots]

Turn is a bit iffy. I often fold to overbets. But I call this down. I don't raise the turn, unless you want to mini-raise the turn and fold to 4-bet all-in.

River bet, is a crying call.

[mlagoo]

lol baltostar is my new favorite poster

[Cardsofwood]

[ QUOTE ]

But the proof is in the pudding. I have mentored complete donks, beginning players, and once I got them to think and stick to a pre-flop goal and expectation for every hand, they became dangerous players.



[/ QUOTE ]

anyone who has no mind of their own and listens to retarded advice is dangerous regardless but more in a way of being a danger to the human race than in a tourney.

[gobboboy]

I'm not in a good mood and I just want to ask the mods to ban baltostar for giving absolutely retarded advice and polluting the minds of this forum.

Seriously, you make no [censored] sense. The OP played this hand absolutely fine. Get over yourself.

[mastr]

blatostar, hu any stakes, plz?

[bokunori]

I don't quite understand your idea of "Expectations" for hands, baltostar. It sounds like, as the pot gets larger, you, assuming your opponent is a thinking one, must tighten your range due to the often more narrow range for your opponent's hand. Could you please elaborate? I'm just curious how you can derive this ideal, and the average expectations for a specific holding (If it is an average, then you may have to earn more on some, to account for earning less on others, yes?)

[baltostar]

Ban ? The ones who should be banned are those who demand bans of those doing real thinking about poker on this forum. What do you think this is ? The Salem Witch Hunts ?

Hero's absolute chip risk significantly increased on each street as his return:investment (pot:total chips bet) odds did not improve v. flop:

flop : 1900/1200 = 1.58:1
turn : 6400/4800 = 1.1:1
river : 16400/11200 = 1.46

Worse, as hero risked more and more chips (future opportunity value), his knowledge of opponent's hand did not improve significantly (not enough ascertain ahead/behind with any playable certainty). All else being equal, KK became less and less likely to be the winning hand as action proceeded to turn and then river.

Additional risked chips provided no increase in expected chips gained per chip risked, while at same time risking chip utility value on a marginal at best opp.

Calling it down is a clear mistake.

[Exitonly]

he did gain a lot of information by just calling, he got to see the turn bet, and thats why a lot of people have said they think a fold could be right on the turn.

Thats without raising the flop for 'information'

[Kala1928]

Baltostar, what is your sn?

I'm starting to doublefloat and bluffshove the river because I know you cant call with one pair and likely not even two pair hands because the pot is so big.

I bet you believe in your own words because they sound so educated and scientifical but what you're saying makes really no sense because its overly complicated and disagrees strongly with some very basic poker principles. Granted its tournament poker and you're playing with t chips but still the fundamentals are generally pretty same.

[ QUOTE ]
Having goals (and expected profit) for hands serves as an alert system that warns you when you are stepping too far outside of the "realm of reasonable expectation" for the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just retarted and anyone posting in the SSNL forum can tell you why.
They can also put the same thing into much simpler form.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand goals/expectations is the single most important concept in tournament poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not, the most important concept in any form of poker is dynamic hand reading in which you don't stick to an earlier plan but instead add the new information you've gained into what you previously had and then make educated guesses. The fish-way is to think "I have two pair, two pair is a good hand I call" or "I started preflop with two queens, two queens is the third best hand you can have I call (on turn/river/whatever)".

Man some of the other stuff you wrote is just so god awful I won't even stick my hand there.

[baltostar]

You expect me to lay out every nuance of my game in a couple of posts ? Maybe you are the one who is "retarted".

Dynamic hand reading is vastly overvalued. Most players (even good players) vastly overvalue their ability to narrow ranges by continuing to the next street. It's always the same old thinking: "hmmmm, I don't really know what's going on, but maybe it'll become clear on the next street, so I'll check/call".

Adding goals and expectations to your game enforces discipline. Not a "rigid I live/die by these rules" discipline, but a displine of first resort nonetheless.

It's the exact opposite of what you think.

The great players know how to lure fish into playing street after street until any realistic goal they had for the hand is mostly unattainable and their chip outlay is way out of proportion to a reasonable expectation.