hand vs. CDC - Page 2

gaming_mouse · #11 10-13-2007, 12:53 PM

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as far as the hand in question, i'd just call on the river. though cdc is capable of 3-bet bluffing the river i don't think he is going to actually do it very often here. most of the time he's going to either fold to your raise or just call in which case you lose.

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DeathDonkey · #12 10-13-2007, 08:20 PM

Wow both hands are bad for different reasons, the first hand is just such a spew, and please just 3 bet preflop. Why do good players go bananas against other good players, if you would have just pretended he was an unknown you would have played both hands a lot better probably.

-DeathDonkey

Hobbs. · #13 10-13-2007, 10:53 PM

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CDC bets the flop dark

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when this happens it usually means CDC has wheel cards so on this flop
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432

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I'm a little worried.

Like DD said, if you had just 3-bet preflop you probably end up being able to play the hand in a conventional fashion and likely don't end up with a train wreck of line.

gaming_mouse · #14 10-13-2007, 11:45 PM

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Wow both hands are bad for different reasons, the first hand is just such a spew, and please just 3 bet preflop. Why do good players go bananas against other good players, if you would have just pretended he was an unknown you would have played both hands a lot better probably.

-DeathDonkey

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Why is the KK/QQ hand bad? After CDC coldcaps PF from the BB and c/3bets a 944 flop, what is his range?

How do you think joker should have played it differently?

DeathDonkey · #15 10-14-2007, 01:51 AM

He could bet the turn when CDC checks it to him, he could call the flop 3 bet and raise the turn. CDC's range after the preflop/flop action is like 88+, I mean what else is Chris supposed to do with 88 on that flop? He doesn't put PJ on bigger than Ace high until after PJ caps the flop. It's not like PJ has TT here, he has Kings!

-DeathDonkey

stinkypete · #16 10-14-2007, 01:59 AM

this reminds me of the time i called a 4-bet from ggbman on the river with ace high. the stakes were 5 times higher though. it was really dumb. your play isn't nearly as dumb, but i think it's still dumb.

ggbman · #17 10-14-2007, 03:17 AM

I thought thay call was awesome! but seriously, u raised ace high to fold a better hand and induce a river bluff 3 bet at the same timr agaist an above average player who will close the action thats prolly not too good an idea...

private joker · #18 10-14-2007, 06:58 AM

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this reminds me of the time i called a 4-bet from ggbman on the river with ace high. the stakes were 5 times higher though. it was really dumb. your play isn't nearly as dumb, but i think it's still dumb.

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OK, I guess I'll concede that I made a bad play here, after you and The Dude and bakku and DD and other posters (who are all better than I am) disapprove of it. After all, I don't play stakes 5 times higher than this. And maybe this is why.

Results: I did manage to get "lucky" here and Chris proudly announced queen high when I called (he had QJs) and scooped a nice pot, but now I'll just call in this situation.

gaming_mouse · #19 10-14-2007, 10:58 AM

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He could bet the turn when CDC checks it to him, he could call the flop 3 bet and raise the turn. CDC's range after the preflop/flop action is like 88+,

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So bet the turn, and CDC has 88+. So assuming CDC is calling down with all those pp that joker beats, joker will be gaining 1 additional bet (compared to the line he took) vs 88, TT, QQ (18 combos), and losing 2 additional bets to 99, JJ, AA (12 combos). We can ignore the other KK. That is an avg loss of .2 BB compared to the line he took.

What am I missing here? I assuming of course that joker is committed to showdown, but given results of the original hand posted in this thread that seems like a reasonable assumption.

EDIT: You may say that I assuming that CDC does bluff c/r with the pp we beat some % of the time, so we have a bit more value bc we are calling those down. However, we don't make up for the -.2BB loss until CDC is bluffing almost 20% of the time with those hands, which seems much higher than his actual bluff rate would be

stinkypete · #20 10-14-2007, 02:51 PM

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Results: I did manage to get "lucky" here and Chris proudly announced queen high when I called (he had QJs) and scooped a nice pot, but now I'll just call in this situation.

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for the sake of being results oriented, there might be situations where you just know he doesn't have [censored] (maybe its the look on his face or the way he throws his chips in combined with the fact that he never checks that turn with a big hand) where raising could be correct. the utg donkey might be dumb and have a stupid pocket pair or something wanting to get to showdown cheap so it doesn't hurt to have him fold.