? about floor decision regarding cards hitting muck

[kassdog]

I was playing Majestic Star in Gary, IN at 1/2NL. Came to showdown heads up. After all betting was done player 1 shows his hand with something like 2 pair or something. Player 2 then had a cleary better hand and flipped them and threw them on top of the muck pile facing up. He was in the 8 seat so he cleary had to throw a great distance to make the muck pile.

Player one thought he won because he thought player 2 mucked his hand when they hit the muck. dealer shoved pot towards player 2 and player 1 complained and floor was called. Floors decision was so long as the cards were face up he won but advised to only flip in front to not cause further confusion.

Now my understanding was that as soon as his cards hit the muck the hand was dead? thoughts

[chucky]

Magic Muck does not exist. Though, I believe I can put posters in this forum on tilt by mentioning magic muck. As long as hand is clear and retrievable there is no magic muck as best tabled hand should always win. That said, how hard is it to table a hand?

[Al_Capone_Junior]

The problem here is this:

You THOUGHT. THAT'S where you went wrong.

A hand that touches the muck is FOULED, NOT DEAD. A fouled hand MAY be declared dead by the FLOOR, not the dealer, and not some schmuck who has never read the rules or worked in the poker industry trying to win the pot without the best hand.

A hand that has been turned face up and is clearly the winning hand cannot be killed on a technicality or dealer error.

The real problem here is that way too many people are involved with either playing poker or working in a cardroom that are near 100% clueless when it comes to the ACTUAL rules of poker, which, as it turns out, are pretty complicated. Then one day some schmuck decides that the muck has "magical properties" that cause anything that comes into contact to be automatically and irrevocably dead regardless of the circumstances. Because nobody in ay positions of power knows diddly or bothers to take the time to learn, this stupidity is allowed to flourish.

Learn the rules before you think.

Al

[CincyLady]

Actually there is a common ruling in the Midwest that all players should be aware of.

If your cards touch the muck, or just as bad, if they touch the flop (which in the Midwest is considered part of the muck), your hand can be declared dead.

I've seen this happen a number of times, when I still lived in the Cincinnati area, especially in a tourney.

Guy goes all in, and at showdown, throws his 2 cards on top of the flop.

His hand is then declared dead, pot awarded to the next best hand, and the if the guy who threw his hand down on the flop had less chips, he is then eliminated out of the tournament.

[PantsOnFire]

[ QUOTE ]
Now my understanding was that as soon as his cards hit the muck the hand was dead? thoughts

[/ QUOTE ]
The only reason poker players think this is so that they can win a hand they don't deserve to win.

[Rottersod]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually there is a common ruling in the Midwest that all players should be aware of.

If your cards touch the muck, or just as bad, if they touch the flop (which in the Midwest is considered part of the muck), your hand can be declared dead.

I've seen this happen a number of times, when I still lived in the Cincinnati area, especially in a tourney.

Guy goes all in, and at showdown, throws his 2 cards on top of the flop.

His hand is then declared dead, pot awarded to the next best hand, and the if the guy who threw his hand down on the flop had less chips, he is then eliminated out of the tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]

And we wonder why "civvies" don't take poker seriously? Honestly, what is with casino's that believe that once you turn your cash into their chips that you are not playing for real money and they can make idiotic rulings that take away your money?

[Ramon Scott]

Unfortunately not enough floor subscribe to easily identifiable or retrievable, and they go with "touch the muck, it's dead."

[soulvamp]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually there is a common ruling in the Midwest that all players should be aware of.

If your cards touch the muck, or just as bad, if they touch the flop (which in the Midwest is considered part of the muck), your hand can be declared dead.

I've seen this happen a number of times, when I still lived in the Cincinnati area, especially in a tourney.

Guy goes all in, and at showdown, throws his 2 cards on top of the flop.

His hand is then declared dead, pot awarded to the next best hand, and the if the guy who threw his hand down on the flop had less chips, he is then eliminated out of the tournament.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is ridiculous. I would be fine with asking the floor to warn a player to stop being a jerk if he's doing something like this repeatedly. But if it's clearly unintentional, then no harm is done and no rule violated.