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  #41  
Old 12-01-2007, 07:23 AM
Nielsio Nielsio is offline
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Default Re: The Ultra-Fi thread

[ QUOTE ]
Pretty much everything even loosely related to the "audiophile" market is a scam

[/ QUOTE ]




ftw



Seriously. Go troll somewhere else.
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  #42  
Old 12-01-2007, 08:03 AM
Gullanian Gullanian is offline
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Default Re: The Ultra-Fi thread

I was excited when buying my system, and the salesman convinced me to buy a 100 interconnector. DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON CABLING. Seriously, since then I've read a lot, asked a lot of auido technicians, done some tests of my own and there is no noticable difference. Cabling market IS a scam. I wasted 100 on a cable and am happy to admit it.

One reputable audio technician I spoke to said that cables CAN colour the sound, but all they do is EQ it. If you want to EQ your sound, get a decent EQ deck.

Watch out for hi fi dealers who turn the volume up on more expensive equipment as well. Humans perceive louder volumes as better quality sound, so hi fi dealers tend to increase the volume slightly when demonstrating expensive cabling.
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  #43  
Old 12-01-2007, 09:52 AM
Nielsio Nielsio is offline
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Default Re: The Ultra-Fi thread

[ QUOTE ]
I used to know a guy from back when I was going to Phish shows who was an audio engineer and showed me this website along time ago and was going to build the imperial folded horn cabinet. I lost touch with him and never heard if he got it done or how it sounded. THe claims on the imperial page sound untrue but he did not seem to think so and said it is all in the design and how the sound is moved in the cabinet. He worked for McIntosh doing something, I cannot recall what though. He knew his stuff at least with respect to mastering phish shows so much that the band own archivist was giving him previously untouched DATS from the early 90s to master for release on bt.etree.org (legal tracker). What is those of you who know your stuff take on Decware's stuff and have anyone purchased anything from them. You can even buy the plans for the cabinets which I think is pretty cool.

http://www.decware.com/newsite/mainmenu.htm

He was looking at this design.
http://www.decware.com/newsite/mainm....htm&intro

[/ QUOTE ]

Decware Imperial:




I think they're using coaxial drivers (15"), in a backloaded construction. Similar to the old monster Tannoys:





Backloaded horns is what you see quite often in the DIY community. They get somewhat budget fullrange drivers and put them in a backloaded horn.








Or in super funky cylindrical form:








Depending on what you're aiming for, I think this can be a good solution. I'd personally still would like to digitally EQ them to give them some real warmth, which just backhorning them doesn't quite do.

As far as coaxial drivers go, that's certainly a solution. There is a reasonable selection of coaxial drivers and if it's power you're after then this is one way to go. But remember, it's still a two-way system that crosses in a sensitive area. I wouldn't prefer it over a really good fullranger in a suitable case (like the PHY-HPs in open baffle in the OP), but I would certainly prefer it over a standard two-way system with wide-directional tweeter.
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  #44  
Old 12-01-2007, 10:04 AM
Nielsio Nielsio is offline
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Default Re: The Ultra-Fi thread

[ QUOTE ]
I was excited when buying my system, and the salesman convinced me to buy a 100 interconnector. DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON CABLING. Seriously, since then I've read a lot, asked a lot of auido technicians, done some tests of my own and there is no noticable difference. Cabling market IS a scam. I wasted 100 on a cable and am happy to admit it.

One reputable audio technician I spoke to said that cables CAN colour the sound, but all they do is EQ it. If you want to EQ your sound, get a decent EQ deck.

Watch out for hi fi dealers who turn the volume up on more expensive equipment as well. Humans perceive louder volumes as better quality sound, so hi fi dealers tend to increase the volume slightly when demonstrating expensive cabling.

[/ QUOTE ]


Just ask them *why* those cables are supposedly better. Hilarity will ensue.
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  #45  
Old 12-01-2007, 11:44 AM
ike ike is offline
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Default Re: The Ultra-Fi thread

[ QUOTE ]
Pretty much everything even loosely related to the "audiophile" market is a scam, whenever anyone does a double blind test the audiophiles freak out(because they've just spent $400 on a volume knob and admitting they got took is too great a blow to the ego) and claim the test was invalid.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know anything about this stuff but my intuition is that theres a significant grain of truth to what you're saying but that there's also a real difference between the speakers you can get for a few hundred bucks and the speakers you can get for a few thousand. Please to be linking the studies you're talking about?
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  #46  
Old 12-01-2007, 12:37 PM
PITTM PITTM is offline
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Default Re: The Ultra-Fi thread

fwiw I am 100% sure cabling makes a difference. I have a/b'd my headphones blind with a couple different cables and there were noticeable differences, mostly wrt warmth and detail. However, I would certainly agree that tons of expensive cables are worthless. This again, is another reason you dont just buy based on brand. My dad still thinks monster cabling makes his systems way better, whereas if i took some microphone cabling with decent connectors and did some soldering it would normally sound better than monster cables. Dont fall for marketing, you have to do research and actually listen to different things to see for yourself.
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  #47  
Old 12-01-2007, 01:38 PM
tsearcher tsearcher is offline
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Default Re: The Ultra-Fi thread

Would an average person be able to hear the difference between the ultra high fi and say a midrange system? Do you need some special physical gift for hearing. Would a middle aged person be be able to hear this stuff? Additionally, would you have to be a musician yourself to really appreciate this?
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  #48  
Old 12-01-2007, 01:49 PM
Nielsio Nielsio is offline
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Default Re: The Ultra-Fi thread

[ QUOTE ]
Would an average person be able to hear the difference between the ultra high fi and say a midrange system? Do you need some special physical gift for hearing. Would a middle aged person be be able to hear this stuff? Additionally, would you have to be a musician yourself to really appreciate this?

[/ QUOTE ]


Have you ever listened to a song on the radio in your car and mistook it for a real concert?


Clearly, the answer is yes (to your question). However, there is such a thing as training your ear. Another thing is appreciation. Some people might hear an insanely good system yet don't give a censored and continue with their life as usual. So what matters there is the appreciation of music. Some people didn't grow up with it and don't even understand it. For others it can make them cry as they get really into the music. And again for others they might enjoy music tremendously yet still have a crappy system at home. What is the case there I think is that they've probably never been decently introduced to a good system and shown the differences in sound and experience. For me personally I can be moved at home as I could be live. On that end I really enjoy DVD of live concerts, so you get the whole thing.


PS. I'm listening to Mozart - Requiem album at the moment, on headphones, and it's giving me shivers all over.
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  #49  
Old 12-01-2007, 02:06 PM
FlyWf FlyWf is offline
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Default Re: The Ultra-Fi thread

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pretty much everything even loosely related to the "audiophile" market is a scam, whenever anyone does a double blind test the audiophiles freak out(because they've just spent $400 on a volume knob and admitting they got took is too great a blow to the ego) and claim the test was invalid.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know anything about this stuff but my intuition is that theres a significant grain of truth to what you're saying but that there's also a real difference between the speakers you can get for a few hundred bucks and the speakers you can get for a few thousand. Please to be linking the studies you're talking about?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure why Nielso got so defensive, clearly components are the least scammy part of the niche market. He and I would differ on where the diminishing marginal return on investment becomes unbearable for components(and probably by a lot), but I think he'd likely admit that diminishing marginal return exists.

The pure scam is the cabling and power cords and etc. stuff. $17k speakers are not worth $15k more than $2k speakers to a reasonable person, but they do have some real physical differences (that are then translated to significant perception differences through the power of self-delusion).

The cabling stuff is all absolutely hilarious to read, though, let me try to find a link I read that was a roundup of various power cords. It was on some audiophile forum where even mentioning double blind testing was a bannable offense.

Also, I'm not trolling, Nielso, people need to know that the audiophile market is specifically targeted to exploit Emperor's New Clothes syndrome.
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  #50  
Old 12-01-2007, 02:18 PM
Nielsio Nielsio is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 10,570
Default Re: The Ultra-Fi thread

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Pretty much everything even loosely related to the "audiophile" market is a scam, whenever anyone does a double blind test the audiophiles freak out(because they've just spent $400 on a volume knob and admitting they got took is too great a blow to the ego) and claim the test was invalid.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know anything about this stuff but my intuition is that theres a significant grain of truth to what you're saying but that there's also a real difference between the speakers you can get for a few hundred bucks and the speakers you can get for a few thousand. Please to be linking the studies you're talking about?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure why Nielso got so defensive, clearly components are the least scammy part of the niche market. He and I would differ on where the diminishing marginal return on investment becomes unbearable for components(and probably by a lot), but I think he'd likely admit that diminishing marginal return exists.

The pure scam is the cabling and power cords and etc. stuff. $17k speakers are not worth $15k more than $2k speakers to a reasonable person, but they do have some real physical differences (that are then translated to significant perception differences through the power of self-delusion).

The cabling stuff is all absolutely hilarious to read, though, let me try to find a link I read that was a roundup of various power cords. It was on some audiophile forum where even mentioning double blind testing was a bannable offense.

Also, I'm not trolling, Nielso, people need to know that the audiophile market is specifically targeted to exploit Emperor's New Clothes syndrome.

[/ QUOTE ]


Yes, you are trolling. You are trolling because you keep making sweeping statements; statements which are not backed up by any technical knowledge nor any kind of situational analysis.

Your sweeping statements (including your first sentence in this thread which stated that *everything* related to audiohpile is a scam) are not appreciated here and if you continue like this I'll ask a moderator to do something about it.


If you'd read this thread you'll find me burning several audio designs. But I'm doing so through backing up my statements technically. There is no point in stating your opinion of something if you can't back it up.
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