Why would online poker sites not rig their games? - Page 4

TruePoker CEO · #31 09-23-2007, 07:06 PM

"All I got in this world are my word and my balls, and I don't bust them for nobody" ..... Tony Montana.

Notwithstanding the allusion above, or the fact that we operate from outside the US, we do not rig our games because that would be dishonest and criminal. We are not dishonest or criminal in our operations or personally.

I am not naive about honesty in general, but you need more than some theoretical construct before you go assuming all online poker sites MUST be rigged.

If you trust that we can stay in business 6+ years by running an honest, fair game, great.

(I have never understood how or why someone would assume that an "offshore" location correlates one whit with either honesty or dishonesty. It is a real canard. If you substitute 'cross-border' for "offshore", somehow the boogeyman vanishes. There is a big world out there, the Internet has made cross-border operations ever more commonplace.)

MuckinWinners · #32 09-23-2007, 07:07 PM

HERE WE GO AGAIN ...............................................

thing85 · #33 09-23-2007, 08:11 PM

You guys are clearly missing something important here. The OP has the "hand shake" avatar, and this is a clear sign of irrationality and/or trolling. Go ahead and look at old threads. Low post count + hand shake avatar = craziness!

OnlinePro · #34 09-23-2007, 08:55 PM

LOl what would a post like this be without my opinion.

First of all, I am a huge winner on all sites except pokerstars, and I still say all sites are rigged.

Second of all I have the experiance in playing live games and comparing them to online games and visually seeing the difference between realistic poker and rigged poker.

Online poker is definately without a question of a doubt rigged, does that mean that you still cant make money on it ? No ofcourse not, you can still win money online. As I have stated before I have seen the most mediocre players winning the most money online just because their account has a special boost mode on it.

If you dont belive online poker is rigged, than you must belive that all politicians are honest and there is no mafia, and everything in the world is on the up an up.

SEriously do you think the sites would just be happy with the 3 dollars in rake, when there are millions of dollars moving around. It is too simple for them to rig the games, and the fact that everyone has pokertracker makes it even more simple for them to rig the games because they can say look at your PT stats everything is normal. Anyone with half a brain can rig the games and make the stats normal. Anyhow for those of you that win at oonline poker your obviously going to continue playing because its rigged in your favor, but if your losing and you still play than your just a moron.

If it wasnt for those stupid top heavy bonuses on stars I would have quit there long time ago, but they put that carrot out there in front of me and I chased it like an idiot and I am very mad at myself for doing it. Breaking even month after month while I could have been winning tens of thousands other places. Anyways I will take the milestone bonuses and quit playing stars. I have also began educating everyone about online poker and telling everyone I meat that it has been proven that online poker is rigged to get more people away from the sites.

How simple would it be for them to hold in house players on the tables and put GOD MODE on those accounts ?

How simple would it be to make fish win a little bit more often than they are suppose to ?

How simple would it be to have at least 1 house player ( diffferent account all the time ) in every MTT and make sure they make final table and take home 3rd or 4th place ? Thats what an extra couple hundred thousand a month ?

DO you really believe that they wont do this because they are honest people ?

Who is going to catch them ? These companied that they pay big money to audit them ? What if this company finds something wrong with the system would they report this to the public first ? or would they report this to stars first and ask for a big bribe to keep their mouth shut ?

Motive is everything and they definately have huge motive and nothing to stop them. When it comes down to money no big corporation is honest.

Coy_Roy · #35 09-23-2007, 09:26 PM

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we do not rig our games because that would be dishonest and criminal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Criminal? Really?

Could you point me to a link where this law is proclaimed?

I'm not saying it's not true, I would just like to see it.

Josem · #36 09-23-2007, 10:18 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
we do not rig our games because that would be dishonest and criminal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Criminal? Really?

Could you point me to a link where this law is proclaimed?

I'm not saying it's not true, I would just like to see it.

[/ QUOTE ]

New York state (USA): http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=11860472

USA more broadly: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=11860379

Victoria state (Australia): http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=11859855

I think it is fair to assume that similar laws apply in other Western jurisdictions.

Note: This is not legal advice. If you wish to obtain legal advice, see a professional

Josem · #37 09-23-2007, 10:29 PM

Throughout this post I'm referring to discussions about poker being rigged in reference to the three largest and most reputable sites - PokerStars, FTP and PartyPoker.

Obviously, the chances of poker being rigged is much greater on a small and shady operation.

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Second of all I have the experiance in playing live games and comparing them to online games and visually seeing the difference between realistic poker and rigged poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here you are being a lying liar who lies.

In this previous thread it was conclusively proved that you do not have the ability to see "the difference between realistic poker and rigged poker."

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Online poker is definately without a question of a doubt rigged,

[/ QUOTE ]
then provide some evidence.

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As I have stated before I have seen the most mediocre players winning the most money online just because their account has a special boost mode on it.

[/ QUOTE ]
please provide how you knew an account "has a special boost mode on it"

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If you dont belive online poker is rigged, than you must belive that all politicians are honest and there is no mafia, and everything in the world is on the up an up.

[/ QUOTE ]
No.

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SEriously do you think the sites would just be happy with the 3 dollars in rake, when there are millions of dollars moving around.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes... when the rake happens over and over, and they can make the most out of the game if it is fair and continues.

[ QUOTE ]
It is too simple for them to rig the games, and the fact that everyone has pokertracker makes it even more simple for them to rig the games because they can say look at your PT stats everything is normal.

[/ QUOTE ]
So everything is normal... but not normal?

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I have also began educating everyone about online poker and telling everyone I meat that it has been proven that online poker is rigged to get more people away from the sites.

[/ QUOTE ]
You are being a lying liar who lies here. It has not been proven that online poker is rigged.

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How simple would it be for them to hold in house players on the tables and put GOD MODE on those accounts ?

[/ QUOTE ]
Much easier than keeping those players to then never tell a soul about it.

[ QUOTE ]
How simple would it be to have at least 1 house player ( diffferent account all the time ) in every MTT and make sure they make final table and take home 3rd or 4th place ?

[/ QUOTE ]
Impossible, because the MTT winners' names are publicly available.

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DO you really believe that they wont do this because they are honest people ?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. They also won't do it because it will cost them money in the long term.

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Who is going to catch them ?

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The public - like they caught Absolute Poker.

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These companied that they pay big money to audit them ?

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...so now it is a massive, inter-company conspiracy?

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What if this company finds something wrong with the system would they report this to the public first ? or would they report this to stars first and ask for a big bribe to keep their mouth shut ?

[/ QUOTE ]
Now you're throwing around entirely baseless and offensive accusations at a whole second group of people.

You should stop lying like a lying liar who lies.

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Motive is everything and they definately have huge motive and nothing to stop them. When it comes down to money no big corporation is honest.

[/ QUOTE ]
Motive is not everything.

Evidence is everything.

As usual, you have provided no evidence.

Your claim that "no big corporation is honest" is a testament to the idiocy of your thinking, of your posts, and of your claims in general.

TruePoker CEO · #38 09-23-2007, 11:40 PM

Josem, I think you miss a key point.

There may be no law prohibiting online poker to be offered by an offshore operator and accessed by players from the US. The US Court of Appeals for the 5th Circuit differs with what the FBI website link obliquely refers to.

That an honest online poker game is not prohibited by Federal statute should not insulate a rigged game from a variety of statutory prohibitions related to dishonest schemes and fraudulent practices.

SO .... why would an online poker site which can legally offer US players honest games open itself up to potential added problems by rigging its games dishonestly ? The question is largely rhetorical. An honest operator would not, a dishonest operator might, an ethical issue just as in any other lawful business.

Coy_Roy · #39 09-23-2007, 11:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
we do not rig our games because that would be dishonest and criminal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Criminal? Really?

Could you point me to a link where this law is proclaimed?

I'm not saying it's not true, I would just like to see it.

[/ QUOTE ]

New York state (USA): http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=11860472

USA more broadly: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=11860379

Victoria state (Australia): http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=11859855

I think it is fair to assume that similar laws apply in other Western jurisdictions.

Note: This is not legal advice. If you wish to obtain legal advice, see a professional

[/ QUOTE ]

Without even debating whether or not those laws you listed could even be applied to a "rigging" case, they most certainly would not apply at all to TruePoker due to their location.

TruePoker mentioned the criminality aspect, insinuating it would be illegal, and I'd like to see if that is in fact true, considering his jurisdiction. Costa Rica, Antigua, or wherever he is located.

ryanj247 · #40 09-23-2007, 11:49 PM

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There is no way to rig a poker site and not get caught. Anyone with a first year stats course can look at hand histories and tell you if something is abnormal.

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just FYI, there is a poster on 2p2 with 17k posts and at least a first year stats course who says he has done a statistical analysis of a huge number of hands and concluded that several sites including stars are almost certainly rigged.

favorite hand wins 95% as often as expected
(also search/see dozens of other posts by same poster...)