Supersystem 1 vs Supersystem 2

[scpi10]

I don't know which books to recommend for SSNL, but as far as your 2nd question, I'm a big believer in focusing on 1 rather than both, but thats just me.

[Quicksilvre]

SS2 also lacks a seven card stud chapter, which I found pretty disappointing. However, the O8 and Stud 8 chapters are pretty good, as is the triple draw chapter. The limit hold'em section is good, but really doesn't cover anything new. The no-limit-hold'em section is pretty much identical to the one in SS1.

Another thing: SS2 is much more commercialized than SS1. The section on internet poker is pretty much a one big ad for Doyle's Room.

[GeeBeeQED]

[ QUOTE ]
What's a similar book like SSHE thats for NLHE small stakes cash games?

Also, should I concentrate on either cash or tourneys at first, or would it not be difficult to do both?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would contend you should concentrate on small buy in tourny first ($5 to $50) without rebuy's. Play these until you are profitable and only play cash with profits from tourny. Cash games are MUCH more advanced than tourny and can be a difficult adjustment. It's two different games really and that leads me to my most important point. Learn one thing at a time, learn it well and stick to it until your making a profit. Then, it's ok to add a new game. Yes, NL cash is a new game if you've only been playing NL tourny. Limit cash is yet another game and so on.......

You asked in an earlier post about books. Here is not my top 10 list but my first 10 list. Each builds upon the last.

I think a good reading list in the following order is:
1.Hold 'Em Poker, Sklansky
2.The Theory Of Poker, Sklansky
3.Poker, The Real Deal, Phil Gordon
4.Little Green Book, Phil Gordon
5.Little Blue Book, Phil Gordon
6.Caro's Book of Poker Tells, Mike Caro
7.Ultimate Guide to Poker Tells, Burgess/Baldassarre
8.Tournament Poker For Advanced Players, Sklansky
9.The book of Bluffs, Matt Lessinger
10.Super System I and II, Doyle Brunson (Yea, I think of them as one) Study the NL, Limit and Tourny sections. The intro telling Doyles story is awesome as well.

Commit yourself to reading each of the above books at least a few times in the first year. Continue your education further also. I've got over 70 books and I'm always looking for a new one. Some are not so hot but every one has taught me something or at the very least made me think about something in a way that finally make it stick.

Sprinkle into the mix the occasional title:
Poker Nation, Andy Bellin
Biggest Game In Town, A. Alvarez
Positively Fifth Street, James McManus
The Professor, The Banker and the Suicide King.

There are some very good books that are not on this list however you can't understand some things without a good foundation. I'm glad I'd been playing a couple years and had 30 books or so under my belt before I discovered Harrington. Harrington is great but you can't use it without solid fundamentals. If you think you can read one or two books and play sound, your dreaming.

Also note, I think the culture and history of poker is important as well as how to play tips and strategy. Those with many of these books will recognize the Phil Gordon books as containing culture/history as well as my sprinkle selections.

Dave.

[Gonso]

GeeBee/Dave,

I'm sorry, but your recommened reading list is pretty terrible. I know you've posted several times how you have over 70 poker books, but frankly a lot of your posts really don't reflect that you've read them. I hate to be so direct about it, but if you're going to give bad advice to new posters in the beginner's forum...

OP was asking about SSNL books. Not only did you leave out PNL1 (cash) and SNG Strategy (SNGs), you're suggesting he can't start out with HoH? You could read those as your 1st poker books ever if you wanted to. The material is very well presented and accessible to even novice players.

Aside from what you left out, you have some questionable inclusions. You've got HEP on there which is pretty chiefly a LHE book. Did you know that? [and, if so, where is SSHE on your list?]. Then there's tons of fluff on there too. Also, you could have pointed out that the LHE chapter in #1 is completely worthless now.

[Gonso]

Anyway, OP:

Give or take what you want to concentrate on (tourneys vs. cash), a basic core of NLHE books would be something like:

LGB and Theory of Poker (which is not NLHE specific) are fine, so are Harrington's books. PNL and SNG Strat are a little more advanced but all are within the grasp of a reasonably intelligent person, which you should certainly be if you're taking up studying poker anyway. There are a few others you could consider like Largay's book or LBB, and then there are the Harrington on Cash volumes, PNL2, and the expanded TPFAP coming out pretty soon.

Ray Zee was just pointing out in another thread that if you can't absorb advanced material, you're not going to be a winner at any stakes that matter in any case.

As far as Super System, Doyle's cash chapter is essentially the same in both volumes. It's also somewhat dated, although the key concepts like aggression are still important, obviously. I'd recommend volume 2 for all of the vastly improved other chapters, however Chip Reese's stud7 in the first volume is still the highlight of both books IMO.

EDIT: Super System 2 is online to read free, maybe if you look around SS1 is there somewhere too

http://www.doylespokerroom.com/poker/poker_online.cfm

[GeeBeeQED]

Gonzo,

I certainly get the feeling I've walked into your home uninvited Gonzo. Is my participation unwelcome sir? Are you asking me to go or just to shut up and read like 95% of every forum surfer?

I think the first six works are high quality works and certainly digestable by anybody looking who's newish to poker. It's not for you. Obviously your foundations are built solidly already. Your expert play is far beyond what any of these books could ever hope to enhance. I'm quite impressed with your far reaching knowledge on all aspects of poker. The depth at which you consider all things is breathtaking to me. Seriously.

I don't remember ever making any sweeping negative characterizations about your posts Gonzo. What is it about me that is bringing the venom out in you? I'm concerned, I don't like bringing that out of my fellow man.

I surf the forum once a day and post once or twice hoping to get some type of intelligent or interesting responces. Working the forumns isn't a living for me. I've no teritory to protect. No weak ego that needs constant uplifting. I hear you barking...................

It's no wonder that only a very small percentage of site surfers ever participate. I wonder what interesting ideas or thoughtful responces we all miss out on because some people just won't bother if they have to live with the critisizm? By the way, I've not gone out of my way to look up all your posts Gonzo. I'm honored. It a high compliment you pay me actually.

If one can't find a few critics it's because his words/actions are without meaning. Because he does nothing.

Peace
Dave

[evagaba]

Didnt read all the replies so if this has been stated...sorry.

IMHO Supersystem 1 or 2 is not where a Beginner should start. I would read the 3 Harrington on Hold Em books. Yes they are tourny strategy, but early round strategy is pretty darn close to cash game play.

[GeeBeeQED]

evagaba,

Certainly the Harrington set is the best ever on Tourny Holdem. He's one of my favorite players. I consider them books not to be missed. I think it's important to have a decent game going prior to taking on these books. However, I certainly would not argue with your remarks. SS1 and 2 are easily missunderstood without a good foundation and that is why I put them late on my list. Harrington helped me through a few problems in my game and certainly improved my tourny result. Anybody ignoring any of these works can't really be serious student of the game.

Dave

[GeeBeeQED]

Gonso, I just realized I've been misspelling your forum handle. No insult was ever intended.

Dave

[JereLock]

Wow, thank you all very much for your responses. My reading list is quite large now.
As I'm currently living in South America, these books won't be accessible until I return in December, so finding supersystem 2 online is amazing!! Thanks again!