Weird preflop checkup - Page 2

Adebisi · #11 10-27-2007, 12:11 AM

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I think this is backwards. The guy is playing scared, and he still raised UTG. He's more likely than normal to have a big pair here. I don't like my 88 all that much, and even if I did, there is a cold-caller in between us.

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UTG sounds like the type of guy that will check/fold QQ/JJ/TT if we 3-bet him and the flop comes A x x or K x x, or check/fold AK if the flop comes Q 9 3.
I like having the initiative here, since UTG seems like he won't put any pressure on us and will make bad folds post-flop.

MitchL · #12 10-27-2007, 12:15 AM

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I think this is backwards. The guy is playing scared, and he still raised UTG. He's more likely than normal to have a big pair here. I don't like my 88 all that much, and even if I did, there is a cold-caller in between us.

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UTG sounds like the type of guy that will check/fold QQ/JJ/TT if we 3-bet him and the flop comes A x x or K x x, or check/fold AK if the flop comes Q 9 3.
I like having the initiative here, since UTG seems like he won't put any pressure on us and will make bad folds post-flop.

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So just forget that there are 3 Corkies behind us left to act?.

Adebisi · #13 10-27-2007, 12:29 AM

If they're retarded enough that I'll get cold-called very often, then I'll be getting a nice overlay, since some of them will have only 1 and sometimes no overcards to my pair. I don't really care if a guy wants to play his 93 suited for 3-bets behind me. If they're only calling the 3 with semi-reasonable hands, then I don't think I'll get called often enough for it to make a difference.

Hamlet · #14 10-27-2007, 12:59 AM

The problem is that you're not really getting an overlay when you don't have the best hand. You're just putting a lot of money in the pot behind. You may well get the UTG hand to fold once in a while, but unless the Corkies all miss too, it won't do you any good. And sometimes the UTG is going to actually play his hand well.

I don't want to try to outplay QQ with 88 in a 4-5 way pot for 4 bets.

I'd much rather play the hand for 2-bets in a 6-7 way pot.

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If they're retarded enough that I'll get cold-called very often, then I'll be getting a nice overlay, since some of them will have only 1 and sometimes no overcards to my pair. I don't really care if a guy wants to play his 93 suited for 3-bets behind me. If they're only calling the 3 with semi-reasonable hands, then I don't think I'll get called often enough for it to make a difference.

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SNOWBALL · #15 10-27-2007, 01:20 AM

call if you expect callers behind you. Otherwise fold.

gameoverjc · #16 10-27-2007, 03:10 AM

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Even if we are behind UTG theres a good chance we can control the amount of bets he puts in if we are behind i.e. he will shut down pretty quickly when shown strength.

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I'm guessing that UTG raises 99+ as well, and this gives me more incentive to 3bet.

Misread OP's post, where does it state he is mp1? I assumed we were in later position...

Pretty sure coldcalling 88 for set value with 2 (in most games) in late position is a leak.

MitchL · #17 10-27-2007, 03:22 AM

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Even if we are behind UTG theres a good chance we can control the amount of bets he puts in if we are behind i.e. he will shut down pretty quickly when shown strength.

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I'm guessing that UTG raises 99+ as well, and this gives me more incentive to 3bet.

Misread OP's post, where does it state he is mp1? I assumed we were in later position...

Pretty sure coldcalling 88 for set value with 2 (in most games) in late position is a leak.

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We are not open coldcalling. There is already one coldcaller and as OP said 2 to 3 bad players behind. Also, 1 possible hand in villains range shouldnt sway the decision here. If we dont flop a set the hand is going to be flat out hard to play.

brandon · #18 10-27-2007, 03:23 AM

Lets think about this hand for a second.

A scared UTG raises and people are thinkng about 3 betting? The worst hand this guy will have is something AJo or KQs. Both of which our hand isn't that far ahead of.

Folding is probably the best play. Just calling isn't bad either. You have to be able to get away from the hand if hit a good flop(ie, no over cards).

gameoverjc · #19 10-27-2007, 03:37 AM

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Even if we are behind UTG theres a good chance we can control the amount of bets he puts in if we are behind i.e. he will shut down pretty quickly when shown strength.

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I'm guessing that UTG raises 99+ as well, and this gives me more incentive to 3bet.

Misread OP's post, where does it state he is mp1? I assumed we were in later position...

Pretty sure coldcalling 88 for set value with 2 (in most games) in late position is a leak.

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We are not open coldcalling. There is already one coldcaller and as OP said 2 to 3 bad players behind. Also, 1 possible hand in villains range shouldnt sway the decision here. If we dont flop a set the hand is going to be flat out hard to play.

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That is what I am saying. Pending on position, we can't depend on players to call behind on us. Although the game OP is talking about, sounds +ev to cold call here, I believe cold calling in long run is -ev.

I'd most likely dump this hand in most spots, but 3 betting to get villain who is playing with scared money off a better pair after a scary flop is good too.

hoppscot22 · #20 10-27-2007, 03:42 AM

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That is what I am saying. Pending on position, we can't depend on players to call behind on us. Although the game OP is talking about, sounds +ev to cold call here, I believe cold calling in long run is -ev.

I'd most likely dump this hand in most spots, but 3 betting to get villain who is playing with scared money off a better pair after a scary flop is good too.

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you are wrong