More Bonds

[RedBean]

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Clemente batted .345 in the season he turned 35 (August). He then followed this with .352, .341, and .312 in his final season at age 38. Two of his three career .400+ OBP seasons came during this time, and he slugged .556 in 1970, nearly a career high.

Banks power numbers suffered a bit, but the man still managed to bang out successive seasons of 23, 32, and 23 HR, driving in 106 runs at age 38.

Please breakdown for us how these are such substantial declines. These guys didn't go poof and disappear, champ.

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I can't for the life of me figure out why you are citing batting average and RBI's to counter the assertion I made that these two gentlemen suffered a decline in home run production between 1968 and 1969.

Let's take a peek at the numbers that would actually address this:

Banks
1968: 1 HR every 17.3 AB
*lowers mound 5 inches*
1969: 1 HR every 24.5 AB

Not sure where you come from, but that would seem to support my assertion that Bank's HR production declined from 1968 to 1969, despite the lowering of the mound.

On to Roberto:

Clemente 2 years prior to mound lowering:
1 HR every 23.5 AB

Clemente 2 years after the mound lowering:
1 HR every 27.5 AB

When analyzing this metric, when the bottom number is bigger than the top number....that's a decline.

[RedBean]

I cannot fathom how these quotes could actually be in the same paragraph of the same post, with any semblance of seriousness.

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I simply didn't gather a guess on head size because I'm not an expert on the subject.

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and then

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how many people do you still having vastly increased head size in this time frame

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So which is it, you can see his head has grown, or you can't tell because you're not an expert?

Or does it just change to suit whatever point your making at the moment?

[pepper123]

RedBean -

Continue killing this thread plz. Ty.

[Case Closed]

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Interestingly enough, I don't read SI. I simply didn't gather a guess on head size because I'm not an expert on the subject. I know what I see though, which is apparently too much to handle for 2p2'ers. As for being 19 versus 43, how many people do you still having vastly increased head size in this time frame, coupled with huge increase in muscle mass, all while exponentially increasing their MLB power numbers?

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Well, if you really want to prove this. My suggestion would be to find a young picture of bonds with on object that you can determine the length without question. Then use that object to measure the size of Bond's head in some way. Then find a latter picture of him and do the same thing. Compare the measurements with both pictures and post them on this site. It would also be helpful to examine how the general population skull size changes from age 20-40. Then you would have some type of proof for your assertation.

Also his increase in muscle mass is easily explained. I am pretty sure it is well known that as far as muscle mass and physical strength is concerned we do not his our peak until we hit our early thirties. You tend to slow down as you get older, but bulking becomes easier. Hence powerlifters and bodybuilders are not in their early twenties. I could be wrong on that point, but I am pretty sure that I am not.

[RedBean]

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Interestingly enough, I don't read SI.


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Even more interesting, you still manage to parrot it rather well. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

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how many people do you still having vastly increased head size in this time frame, coupled with huge increase in muscle mass, all while exponentially increasing their MLB power numbers?

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So, anyone who hits a lot of homeruns, combined with your anecdotal and admittedly non-expert analysis of head size is thus undoubtedly a steroid user?

But in Hanks case, he hit alot of homeruns late in his career, not because it is possible to have a surge by a great talent, such as Bonds and Aaron may well be....but instead Hank did it because the mound was lower?

[RedBean]

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If this is the case, why are people STILL looking for covert ways to take them? Not much sense in seeking out steroids for use unless the presumption is they will increase performance dramatically.

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There isn't much sense in me smuggling a rubber dick into work to pass a tox screen, but that doesn't necessarily mean my weekend coke binges improve my performance at work.

[JordanIB]

great, not this same [censored] thread again

[PopeInRome]

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I read I Had A Hammer many times, admittedly when I was a kid, I don't remember one sentence about amphetamines. Someone post a link or copy and paste pls.

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Turn your book to page 268.

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On page 268, Aaron states:

"Actually, the 1968 season wasn’t the best time to present my case. It was the first time since my rookie year that I didn’t drive in or score 100 runs. I was so frustrated that at one point I tried using a pep pill—a greenie—that one of my teammates gave me. When that thing took hold, I thought I was having a heart attack. It was a stupid thing to do…”

[RedBean]

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Well, if you really want to prove this. My suggestion would be to find a young picture of bonds with on object that you can determine the length without question. Then use that object to measure the size of Bond's head in some way. Then find a latter picture of him and do the same thing. Compare the measurements with both pictures and post them on this site. It would also be helpful to examine how the general population skull size changes from age 20-40. Then you would have some type of proof for your assertation.


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Alternatively, you can go to Cooperstown and see the helmets Bonds wore while hitting 755 and 756 on display are size 7 3/8.

To assert it's "grown three sizes" one would conservatively have to assume Bonds started out wearing a size 7 flat. I urge anyone of normal, non-dwarf status to attempt to put on a size 7 flat cap.

You could also learn that the Equip man for the Giants has issued Barry caps ranging from 7 1/4 to 7 3/8 from 1993 to 2007, varying in-season depending on conditions (sweat, etc).

Then you could know that the most commonly sold hat size of MLB authenticated apparel is 7 1/2....meaning the lunks in the stands boorishly sniping at Bonds actually have fatter heads on average.

And the average sized male head translates to a 7 1/4.

Bruce Bochy, btw, wears an 8. Dude has a mega-lo-melon.

[RedBean]

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On page 268, Aaron states:

"Actually, the 1968 season wasn’t the best time to present my case. It was the first time since my rookie year that I didn’t drive in or score 100 runs. I was so frustrated that at one point I tried using a pep pill—a greenie—that one of my teammates gave me. When that thing took hold, I thought I was having a heart attack. It was a stupid thing to do…”

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Anyone who has a copy of the Hammer's tome laying around is good in my book. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

You'd be hard-pressed, however, to find that passage cited in SI or any other major sports media outlet over the past 5 years amidst their glorification/explotation of Hank with the intention of villifying Bonds.

It would have complicated the issue, and they wanted it simple... good vs evil.

EDIT: You should quote the passage directly above that where "the case" he is presenting is elaborated. His open jealousy of Mays is often forgotten, and if Barry were to write something similar , he would be lambasted for being an envious prick.

In his own book he admits his jealousy of Mays drove him to try illegal substances to enhance his performance.