$60 77 - middle pairs are the hardest hands to play in NL holdem

[ryanghall]

If he calls, there's a very good chance it's not a coinflip.

Ryan

[Indiana]

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I push this every time

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[bigt439]

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I must be a fish, so can somebody tell me why this isn't a shove?

Indy

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[bigt439]

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If he calls, there's a very good chance it's not a coinflip.

Ryan

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I think you'd be surprised if you worked out the math on that.

[microbet]

I would consider how the villian has been playing, but his min-raising with a big stack from the CO make pushing look good in general. Change the stack to 1200 and the position to early and it is an easy fold against most villians.

[pineapple888]

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I find it's generally easier to just look at a minraise as a raise, but make a note that villain is a donk. Unless the blinds are huge--like HU equal stacks BB600--then it's acceptable.

So for you folders, between calling and pushing, which comes second? And let's say just for the sake of argument, you donked it up and called and saw this:

Preflop: Hero is in SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="gray">UTG folds</font>, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to t200</font>, <font color="gray">Button folds</font>, Hero calls t150, BB calls t100

Flop: (t600) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero?

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I think calling is pretty bad for the reasons ryan already explained. Push is second best but still seems pointless to me with a very marginal hand against somebody who can bust you out. Remember, you want to be pretty conservative in general with 10-15BB because of risk/reward and because you have time to wait for a premuim hand.

As played, congratulations. You now get to play the idiot end of the straight OOP against two villains who are quite likely to have a piece of the flop. Check/fold to any reasonably-sized bet. Unless you want to donk it up some more. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[suzzer99]

No open shove postflop? Hard for villains to call w/o a T. And I do have outs.

[emmapeel9]

Yes this is a bit tough but you can't throw away such a good hand. Re-raising all-in is a bit crazy, but I would call here. You are hoping for a flop with at most one high card, but not an ace. This means that your 7's might be the best hand and you may want to make a small bet to win the pot.

Emmapeel

[pineapple888]

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No open shove postflop? Hard for villains to call w/o a T. And I do have outs.

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Your outs are extremely shaky (hence the term "idiot end of the straight") and any pair higher than yours is insta-calling obviously as is any J probably and any T and any two-pair and any flopped straight, etc., etc. and there are two villains interested in the pot. This is really much grimmer than it looks at first.

You still have &gt;10BB after the first donk move. No sense compounding it. Plus you aren't out of the pot yet, it could get checked around, although a 6 is really the only card I'd want to see on the turn and even then you could be f'd which shows how thin you are probably drawing if you are behind.

[FoldYourLife]

It's pretty close between a push and a fold, but I probably push here. Calling is terrible.