some thin value questions about a powerhouse hand.

[disco_stu1978]

Villain is readless, but the overcaller in the hand is a pretty solid player.

18/7/1.1/329

Can I cap this river here with any kind of longterm value? Do I seriously ever think about quads?

Also should I cap the flop? or call to hopefully get the player behind to come along?


PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10.40 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 calls, CO folds, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP2 calls, BB calls.

Turn: (11.70 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 calls, BB calls.

River: (17.70 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero ???

[fretelöo]

No, I don'T think so. There is a chance he's doing this with 9x or 77 or something, but I don't think there's a lot of value in a cap.

[Xhad]

No, don't cap, even the first river raise is a spew. If we assume BB would play both Tx and 3x this way they are equally likely since he has to have the case either way. Now throw in that he would have to be massively overplaying to play Tx this way and completely retarded to play anything else this way and you have no value.

[Bona]

I think some villains might play an over pair this way JJ+. That probably gives us enough reason to hold the raise button down from the flop on.

[milesdyson]

call first river bet. i'd rather fold there than raise. it's a fold to the river 3-bet, but whatever, call.

[disco_stu1978]

After I look at this hand more I can see the mistake(s).

Although I am not sold on the river raise being spew. I doubt it is such a bad play that it spews, but it is very thin. Especially readless. There are a few people at this level who will missplay hands here often enough to make this raise thin IMO.


I am struggling with folding to a 3-bet here though (even though I think it is a good play). Of all those hands that would donk the river, like non of them 3-bet.....except 3x.

[Zeldark]

[ QUOTE ]
call first river bet. i'd rather fold there than raise. it's a fold to the river 3-bet, but whatever, call.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you notice the stakes? Pot size? Fold to 3-bet? 2nd nuts. Really?

[ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S]

[ QUOTE ]
call first river bet. i'd rather fold there than raise. it's a fold to the river 3-bet, but whatever, call.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with just calling the river bet, but the rest of this post is pretty ridiculous

[disco_stu1978]

[ QUOTE ]
I think some villains might play an over pair this way JJ+. That probably gives us enough reason to hold the raise button down from the flop on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this, but I am not a lite flop capper.... (he is obv readless on me too, but for discussion sake) So if he does have JJ+ then his line until the river is fine, but I doubt you donk JJ+ on this river if I played the hand the way I did.

your line of thinking in your post was the reason I raised though. But if I look at my line alittle closer you can see how thin that raise becomes.

[mdkrahn]

wow,

bet/folding river would be absolutely barftastic.

Anyone else notice this is 0.25/0.5,
just because he's nitty,
doesn't mean he's not dumb enough to play an overpair this way too.