why NOT to limp preflop - 6max NL

[daisyglaze]

Mahatma open limps pretty often from 2 and 3 otb.

[spino1i]

I guess im the only winning player at 3/6 NL that likes to open limp a lot?

I personally find it adds a new weapon in your game allowing you to reraise someone who raised you, or call and disguise your holdings. Then again I play full ring, and in 6-max I do a lot less open limping. But still I do some open-limping even in 6-max.

As for overlimping, I do that all the time with suited connectors in stuff, and just go for the monster. No reason to bloat the pot pre-flop with a marginal hand or with a pocket pair in weak position.

I dont feel like arguining why I like it more in great detail right now.. maybe later..

[MrWizard]

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anyone a big winner who likes to limp preflop care to talk about why they like to limp vs raise?

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I don't think that limping is a strategy to stick to. But, its a good way to switch gears. Its a good way to punish players that don't raise enough preflop and make big mistakes postflop. Certain situations make limping profitable. Like someone said earlier, if you are sitting with 4 dragons limping is probably suicide.

[FGators]

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There are plently of successful players that limp a lot.

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maybe, but they are not beating HSNL, and certainly not winning as much as they could at MSNL long-term, unless they're playing a very skilled, unorthodox postflop style.

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part of this might be that at HSNL, you just won't see say 3 guys limp in from EP that often, and thus the situations in which limping is preferred over raising is just not there due to the players involved.

you take a HSNL player that raises very often and adjusts well and ask him to play NL200 and he might find that its more profitable to raise less often preflop.

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Great point,amoeba.

I found that raising first in with A4,J9,810,910 just ends up losing money in the long run at NL 200.

I miss the flop, continuation bet after checked, get called and there goes $25.

I make all my money by raising pairs, continuation betting the flop when I hit a set and stacking top pair.

I think raising too much of the suited connectors can work at HSNL but is spewage at NL 200.

[neverforgetlol]

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I remember in someone's stats post a few days ago several people advocated a 1:1 VPIP:PFR ratio. I didn't say anything, but thought to myself that they were crazy. I think playing something like 25/12 is far too passive preflop.

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1:1 is 24/12, since every hand you raise is included in vpip, right?

either there's a typo somewhere or you misunderstood what they were trying to say.

1:1 = 15/15
2:1 = 24/12

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i thought 1:1 was 24/12 since vpip includes pfr.

[BobboFitos]

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A hand occurred a few days ago where I had been liberally raising, floating and 3-betting an otherwise solid LAG 2+2 regular. I picked up QQ on the BTN, he raised, and I 3-bet. He called, and c/red a T high flop all-in with 88. Stack to me. That would not have occurred had I been playing weak/tight/passive and limping. He would have checked and folded the flop.


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you could argue villain would not have lost his stack if he was playing limp / call / check / fold poker.

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By raising preflop, you’re creating +EV situations where none existed before. Couple this with solid postflop play and you will already be improving. Limping is just asking for good players to pick on you. The key is precise control of your play postflop. Experiment from the CO/BTN first, and then start adding in the other positions. It's alright to fold 22 UTG if you're not comfortable raising it.

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I think you're right (im in the raise/fold camp) but I dont think you're universially right. There are many situations (more so live) where you want to play every hand, and raising pf wont let you do that. A good generalization is to raise pf, and if you dont want to raise, fold. But there are definately exceptions.

[BobboFitos]

sorry about the bump, too, someone linked this from a hsnl thread and i thought this was pretty good...

fwiw HU I limp alllllllllllllllot.

[KRANTZ]

just reread this, i can add some things

-live play you can limp a lot just to get in the pot with all those donkeys

-heads up to change it up against very aggro players or passive calling stations who you cant fold out by raising and bet/betting

-some situations in 6max where if you raise, you are constantly 3-bet by someone very good with a wide range. mixing in limps and limp reraises is an effective counter strategy and probably not as swingy as getting involved in the 3-bet/4-bet wars that seem to have taken hold of the games lately

comes down to aggression, aggression, agression. put opponents at difficult decisions constantly. which is something that a lot of people don't do often enough

[AlwaysAir]

I agree with all of this.

[BobboFitos]

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-some situations in 6max where if you raise, you are constantly 3-bet by someone very good with a wide range. mixing in limps and limp reraises is an effective counter strategy and probably not as swingy as getting involved in the 3-bet/4-bet wars that seem to have taken hold of the games lately

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im tring not to be nitpicky ( [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ) and in general what you're saying is good and all.

but the best strategy is if someone very good is making your life hell, really, is to get up and not play at that table. or change positions. implementing something on the go - like the limp / raise limp / call limp / fold rather then raise and face his 3bet is highly exploitable, running along the thinking that the hero is probably very inexperienced with applying an "effective" strategy doing that, so most of it will be on the go. whereas villain will have dealt with limpers that call fold and raise before, so he's not really faced with anything new.

i get 3bet alot, and mainly i just 4bet more (then go busto) . really tho just loosen up even more or tighten up works for me - the old expression is "if you bang your head into a wall 10 times in a row, maybe its time to walk around it instead" rather then stick to raising pf alot, try something different, like fold a little more.