L/C Help me. Lack of an afterlife leads me do depression.

[hitch1978]

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Nothing would please me more than finding a 'solution', and that is obviously my motive, but I am not sure that my condition is cureable.


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1 Corinthians 15:
26The last enemy that will be abolished is death.


53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.

55"O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?"

56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;

57but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


2 Timothy 1:10
but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

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I did find your post stirring, but as someone that lives in the logical, tangible world, please elaborate in a way that I can reach.

[AWoodside]

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Nothing would please me more than finding a 'solution', and that is obviously my motive, but I am not sure that my condition is cureable.


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1 Corinthians 15:
26The last enemy that will be abolished is death.


53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.

55"O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?"

56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;

57but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


2 Timothy 1:10
but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

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I did find your post stirring, but as someone that lives in the logical, tangible world, please elaborate in a way that I can reach.

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Seriously, check out Transhumanism with an open mind (which doesn't sound like a problem for you). It may change your whole outlook on life in a way consistent with a rational world-view.

[hitch1978]

AWoodside,

I LOVE the theory you speak of.

Indeed it is clearly the ideal I search for, but in the next 40 years? I think that is a stretch, not that I am phoo phooing it.

Also, what of birth rates under such a scheme?

[bunny]

It seems you are saying that something temporary can have no value. I dont think this is true and consider many fleeting experiences through my life to be amongst the most valuable (even though they're now gone, never to be repeated).

Perhaps a useful strategy for you would be to examine the premise that only eternal things have any value. If you reject that, perhaps you will come to believe your life has value even though it is temporary.

[Limesparks]

hitch just so u know theres probably some middleground between living forever in heaven and living forever as some sort of robot vampire that hasnt been discussed yet

[foal]

I had an ex with this problem. I couldn't solve it so I'm sure I can't solve yours. It's strange how many girls have talked to me about being suicidal, wanting to kill themselves because they think no one likes them or they can't function in the world and so on. And yet the girl who was depressed about the fact that she would die one day I found far more depressing.

I don't know why I have no fear of death. I'm not really sure that I believe it's an end to consciousness. But I'm not confident that it's not and the thought doesn't scare or depress me.
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Ceasing to exist is the absolute worst thing that can happen to a sentient being.

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I don't agree with this at all. It may be true for some, but I'd rather not exist than exist in misery.


This line of thinking about consciousness can lead to some interesting thought experiments. E.g.
What is 'me'? Why is 'my' consciousness this body or 'in' this body? If my parents had not had sex or had sex at a different time would 'I' be someone else? It's hard to verbalize my thoughts on consciousness, but they do make me skeptical of there being no self that exists independent of the body. Most here will probably disagree.

[willie24]

i think your view of the world is flawed- not the idea that there is no afterlife, or the idea that the world is infinite - but i think you place too much eternal importance on your "self" (including your family).

try to separate your philosophical thought from your biological desires. every thing "you" are - your pain, your desires, your love for your children, is biological. that doesn't cheapen it - it's OK to be human and seek human desires/causes. in fact, everything worth doing falls under this category. embrace being human...because it is what YOU are.

but, at the same time, you have the ability to concieve of the world beyond "yourself". does it pain you that when "you" die, this world might continue? couldn't it bring you joy instead?

it seems to me that consciousness is not unique to the biological me (meaning the living guy with my name, born on my birthday). if we assume that it isn't - that it exists in some form beyond me, what are the implications?

im not exactly sure, obviously...but consider a this campfire conversation i was once part of:

girl #1: i believe in reincarnation. (she gave no logical reason for believing it, other than wanting to believe it)
girl #2: me too! i want to come back as a cat
me (jokingly): as a cat, will you remember your life as girl #2?
girl #2: probably not
stoner guy: then will it really be you?

this was a sort of epiphany for me, because it pointed out a logical flaw in the way most of us view ourselves relative to the world. i don't think i can put it into words, so here's hoping it hit you too.

[FortunaMaximus]

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Fortuna,

Drinking = Smoking. Discuss.

That is not a throw away comment BTW.

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I like cigarettes. That's all there is to the habit, really. It doesn't carry the dangers of long-term alcohol abuse. It's surprisingly effective in its destruction. Pot is a more complex situation and varies by individual. It doesn't agree with me anymore.

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I appreciate everything you say, however I believe it may be a bigger issue for me as I remember the first time I cried because I was gonna die was when I was twelve (I think) when Freddie Mercury died, my mum's hero. I really look up to people like you, and madnack and Phil, that can look at life logically and not be phased by the fact that in 1000 years nothing you do counts.

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I was 4. Figured it out on my own, and threw a tantrum. Unlike those two, I don't always look at life logically. I prefer to think on much vaster timescales than they do. I'm just pragmatic in that I cannot avoid my own death and figure if there's a solution, it's already there.

I don't mean transhumanism or the optimistic hope that the singularity will occur. It reeks a bit of escapism and denial to me, but more power to them if they get it done.

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I Know that everything I do counts for my daughter (eg) and that it matters 100%. I do everything possible to raise my kids the best way I can. A good analogy is of the 1,000,000 starfish on the beach all drying out in the sun. I care for the starfish I can, but that doesn't make my life any more significant, does it?

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It is what you make it out to be, how important your life is. How important you value having a fulfilling role in your daughter's life, and her quality of life. Being a great father to her goes a long way towards increasing that. Having the motivation to do so won't be easy some days, but there's probably a feedback effect, the happier and more content she is, the more you will be.

It's not something you can point to, for another person, there's no 'aha' solution about it. What you can take solace in is that it's probably the most difficult problem you'll ever have to resolve on your own. Most people either give up on it or would rather not think about it at all, and you're seeing why.

[foal]

interesting post willie. this may make me sound lame, but I used to play this computer game called DotA a lot where you play as one of a large range of diverse, but (at least somewhat) balanced characters... and I sometimes like to think of my biological 'self' as a character that 'I' am playing, which has its own unique strengths and weaknesses.

[hitch1978]

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It's not something you can point to, for another person, there's no 'aha' solution about it. What you can take solace in is that it's probably the most difficult problem you'll ever have to resolve on your own. Most people either give up on it or would rather not think about it at all, and you're seeing why.

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I am going to bed now, and will post more, but right now I have to add 1 thing.

Why is my wife (Whom I have touched upon this subject with) so happy? Seriously?

We have discussed it, and she is content without dealing with the issues I have raised. I think that is actually the crux of the issue. Does nobody else see the issue?

I genuinely beliive that if you could prove there was no free will I would polarize. I would either go out raping, or would never leave my bed.

^^ To me that is 100% logical.

DUCY?