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#1
10-25-2007, 04:01 AM
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Healthcare, infrastructure, schools and law and order.
I don't really know where to begin or where i am at exactly.
I think that many of the ideas held by libertarians are correct. If we put aside what we know about governments in general, how they are often corrupt, incompetent, take large portions of our money and delivers back what we feel is inadequate for what we have given, would you mind paying a portion of your money to make sure that everyone had the above things if you knew that the people in charge would deliver? If you knew that your hard earned money were treated with the respect they deserved. I believe that everyone should have an equal chance to make it in this world and if we as a society could provide the above that chance would be given to individuals. I would not mind paying a bit of my salary to make sure that that everyone, even those who do not deserve it get health care, all children even those raised by poor or neglecting parents have the opportunity to a solid education. Basically i think education is the most important thing and i don't want ones background to dictate what kind of education he or she gets. Anyways, i am sort of rambling with no real beginning nor an end and i guess i need guidance to truly understand where i stand and why. Hoping for some feedback from libertarians and anyone who wish to chip in. 
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#2
10-25-2007, 04:07 AM
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Re: Healthcare, infrastructure, schools and law and order.
The internet has solved the education problem. Watch and see. Any information you want, and 1000 tutorials on it, are available online. Wait til collaborative voluntary cyber-schools begin to coalesce with ad-hoc class-times and test-as-you go progress, with self certifications that will have more validity that many real world schools.
The internet is going to transform education in ways most people really haven't begun to think about, and it's going to democratize education far more effectively that any government program has ever done. natedogg
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#3
10-25-2007, 05:11 AM
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Re: Healthcare, infrastructure, schools and law and order.
[ QUOTE ]
I would not mind paying a bit of my salary to make sure that that everyone, even those who do not deserve it get health care [/ QUOTE ] ?? what do u mean by this ??
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#4
10-25-2007, 05:22 AM
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Re: Healthcare, infrastructure, schools and law and order.
Feel free to pay for these things for anyone that you want. You can also write talk and teach to try and convince others that they should do the same but you don't get to force anone to do something just because you think it should be done!
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#5
10-25-2007, 06:02 AM
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Re: Healthcare, infrastructure, schools and law and order.
This whole post shows an extreme lack of understanding of libertarian values, so I will help you out.
I morally believe that all children should receive a good education regardless of their parents, and I morally believe that society should support those who cannot support themselves, so yes, I would be willing to pay my share in the situation you describe. The problem is, if you could find a way for government to provide these services without corruption, incompetence and general inadequacy, I would still oppose government being involved in these things. Neither the corruption nor the fact that I'm being forced to participate are the primary reasons that I oppose these types of government programs. The reason I oppose them is that if I were to support them, that is equivalent to me endorsing the government forcing those people who don't agree with my morals to follow them, which is equivalent to me forcing them myself. Me forcing other people who don't agree with these morals to abide by my morality and fund it is disgustingly immoral, and the positives gained from these services do not justify the means. It is absolutely no different in my eyes than government mandated religion. Go to church or get shot. Sorry, but no thanks. Also, libertarians as a whole don't have a ton of problems with city level taxation for infrastructure like roads and stuff. We don't particularly like it and would like to see things done better and more efficiently, but as long as you can direct the payment for these services towards those who actually use the service (higher fees for drivers' licenses perhaps) so that you can make sure you're not charging those who don't use that service, it's not immoral in the same sense as the moral issues above. As for law and enforcement... if you're talking about violent crimes and theft and generally protecting people from other people, this is basically a part of infrastructure. If you're talking about drug laws, smoking laws, gambling laws, prostitution laws and such, that stuff falls back under the morality section.
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#6
10-25-2007, 06:10 AM
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Re: Healthcare, infrastructure, schools and law and order.
[ QUOTE ]
This whole post shows an extreme lack of understanding of libertarian values, so I will help you out. I morally believe that all children should receive a good education regardless of their parents, and I morally believe that society should support those who cannot support themselves, so yes, I would be willing to pay my share in the situation you describe. The problem is, if you could find a way for government to provide these services without corruption, incompetence and general inadequacy, I would still oppose government being involved in these things. Neither the corruption nor the fact that I'm being forced to participate are the primary reasons that I oppose these types of government programs. The reason I oppose them is that if I were to support them, that is equivalent to me endorsing the government forcing those people who don't agree with my morals to follow them, which is equivalent to me forcing them myself. Me forcing other people who don't agree with these morals to abide by my morality and fund it is disgustingly immoral, and the positives gained from these services do not justify the means. It is absolutely no different in my eyes than government mandated religion. Go to church or get shot. Sorry, but no thanks. Also, libertarians as a whole don't have a ton of problems with city level taxation for infrastructure like roads and stuff. We don't particularly like it and would like to see things done better and more efficiently, but as long as you can direct the payment for these services towards those who actually use the service (higher fees for drivers' licenses perhaps) so that you can make sure you're not charging those who don't use that service, it's not immoral in the same sense as the moral issues above. As for law and enforcement... if you're talking about violent crimes and theft and generally protecting people from other people, this is basically a part of infrastructure. If you're talking about drug laws, smoking laws, gambling laws, prostitution laws and such, that stuff falls back under the morality section. [/ QUOTE ] "And the positives gained from these services do not justify the means" So even if all the children now have good education, it is not justified because some people have contributed to this against their will?
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#7
10-25-2007, 06:15 AM
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Re: Healthcare, infrastructure, schools and law and order.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I would not mind paying a bit of my salary to make sure that that everyone, even those who do not deserve it get health care [/ QUOTE ] ?? what do u mean by this ?? [/ QUOTE ] This is towards those who contribute nothing, do nothing and expects thing to be handed to them.
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#8
10-25-2007, 06:35 AM
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Re: Healthcare, infrastructure, schools and law and order.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I would not mind paying a bit of my salary to make sure that that everyone, even those who do not deserve it get health care [/ QUOTE ] ?? what do u mean by this ?? [/ QUOTE ] This is towards those who contribute nothing, do nothing and expects thing to be handed to them. [/ QUOTE ] damn kids piss me off too!
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#9
10-25-2007, 06:40 AM
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Re: Healthcare, infrastructure, schools and law and order.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I would not mind paying a bit of my salary to make sure that that everyone, even those who do not deserve it get health care [/ QUOTE ] ?? what do u mean by this ?? [/ QUOTE ] This is towards those who contribute nothing, do nothing and expects thing to be handed to them. [/ QUOTE ] damn kids piss me off too! [/ QUOTE ] Haha, obviously not referring to kids.
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#10
10-25-2007, 08:35 AM
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Re: Healthcare, infrastructure, schools and law and order.
[ QUOTE ]
The internet has solved the education problem. Watch and see. Any information you want, and 1000 tutorials on it, are available online. Wait til collaborative voluntary cyber-schools begin to coalesce with ad-hoc class-times and test-as-you go progress, with self certifications that will have more validity that many real world schools. The internet is going to transform education in ways most people really haven't begun to think about, and it's going to democratize education far more effectively that any government program has ever done. natedogg [/ QUOTE ] Jesus, lets hope not. You are wrong but if it were ever true humanity would be lost forever. "more validity that many real world schools" Actually I take it all back if there would be more validity!
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